I have not talked to my narcissistic dad in over a year. He is getting on, and I know that our time is short, but I don’t want to talk to him. I love him very much, and I still do feel extreme guilt for not talking to the Poor-old-man-who-won’t-be-around-much-longer. Extreme guilt, which I try to push away, or down, but manifests in gallbladder problems, fairly heavy consumption of wine, and low-level depression. I have worked very hard to heal from him, I hate the guilt, because there is a healthy part of me that knows that I did not earn, but was taught, this sense of guilt. It was hand ...
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It is my dear hope that this poster will reply, and will take you seriously, SS. It is so hard to accept the reality of who we are dealing with. This person ”loves” us! It is a hassle to leave!! I don’t want to lose my ”stuff”!! Those attitudes nearly killed me. The women that have turned up dead as a result of domestic abuse ”loved” their husbands, and their husbands ”loved” them - to death. Abusers declare loudly and constantly how much they love their partners, even as they are controlling them or choking them to the floor. ”I love you, you f-ing b_tch”, was a common and favorite phra ...
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My dad is an NPD. His big thing was to get sick when we got sick. Example. I was 10 and got pneumonia, very bad, had to go to the emergency room when I passed out in a movie theater from fever. My sister and I shared a room and we had twin beds. As soon as I was well enough to function, dad got ”sick”, and took to my sisters bed beside me. Being the oldest, I had to get up and tend him, which resulted in my having a relapse. If one of us was sick, he would get sick. This has resulted over the years in my refusing to be sick. One of the big running jokes when I was diagnosed with fibroi ...
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One thing it may help to remember is that threatening suicide is one of the manipulations that works the best on women like us. What an amazing amount of power someone can have by threatening to kill themselves!! And if he did, you are NOT responsible. Look at it like this: This man, who has NO PROBLEM packing up and leaving you and your child WHENEVER HE WANTS TO, who has NO PROBLEM leaving you in tears and financial trauma and heartache, is going to kill himself, WHY?? Because he LOVES you?? Doesn’t make sense, does it? At this time, in this place, RIGHT NOW, this is what he will do f ...
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thanks for the hugs :) I know the stages of grief you are talking about. I am only now finding my way to acceptance. I could go around and around all the stages and never hit acceptance. I actually caught myself in the bargaining stage, thinking I was accepting! I would go ”ok, I accept this”, but inside I was still waiting and hoping for change. Most recent example: We are all big readers in my family, and we all like certain topics. For dad it is war stories and the like. Since I am the Garage Sale Queen, I would find books for dad and always have a nice little stack for him when I we ...
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Lakelight- Of course you are sad, and of course you have a head cold! We are definately physically influenced by our emotions. Louise Hay has a book about that. The grief that I still feel is really the futility of it all. All that effort to love someone with NPD, only to learn that you CAN’T - they really won’t let you. And the sorrow of losing the fantasy - that they will somehow ”come to” amd become an authentic person. But they won’t. They go storming off into the night with their fist raised, cursing YOU because you won’t ”act right”. My biggest heartache is the knowing that my ...
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We have 3 dogs, each is such a unique personality, I think it would be hard if one were sick. Some time ago, my cat got ill and the doc said she may not live, and the impact on me was much more than I expected!! Sorry for the bad news. Well, on the other...now you can further your healing. It is a bittersweet thing, I know. I still feel ”weird” about not talking to dad, almost a year now. But I know that as long as there is the dynamic that was, that I cannot sustain in that relationship. It just costs too much. The good part for me is that I now discern in all my relationships. My boyf ...
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Well, poor OJ is a ”victim” once again. I have felt for years that he is the consummate narcissist, the perfect example of how one operates with this disorder. Some other articles indicate that he felt he was exercising his ”right” to take the law into his own hands, I saw a video the other day stating that he would never pay the Goldmans any money, if it meant he would never work again. He said with this little evil grin ”I’ll just play golf all day”. He literally gives me the creepies. Literally , the little hairs on my face stand up when I see him or hear him talk. It is all too famil ...
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My sister has breast cancer, she had survived dad by being the ”good” one - she figured that if she ”got in agreement” with dad in all areas of her life, that he wouldn’t terrorize her. With dad, his way of thinking was right, and if you disagreed, you were toast. I was the ”truth-bearer” in our family. Dad had kidnapped us and effectively silenced mom, my sister was too conforming to bear truth, and I guess at a young age I decided to not conform. I think my sister has breast cancer because of the suppression of Who She Really Is, and stuffing her anger. She is neurotic, and you have to b ...
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Please be kind to yourself about any guilt that you feel. One thing a NPD does to us is to create tremendous amounts of guilt. There is earned and unearned guilt. It is very difficult for us to discern which is which. People who have dealt with NPDs’ and survived understand this, and we are here to help you discern. The guilt comes and goes with me. I think I may be dealing with this for a very long time, but I work very hard to discern, and most often find that I am feeling UNEARNED guilt. None of us ”don’t understand” why you did what you did. Ask yourself if your guilt is earned or u ...
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Oh please hang in there. The emotional detox will certainly take time, and this is probably a very very good time to be exercising and to have kindness toward your selves. The adrenaline that runs for years when dealing with a difficult person will cease, and the ”let-down” can be a strange feeling. That has been my experience, at any rate. I have found that anger has rolled over me in waves, at different times, but in a way, I have learned to kind of embrace the anger, because i am finally being angry at what I needed to be angry at. As long as I was trying to have a relationship with my ...
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Terrific post, SS! I like your description of emotional death. I still experience and alternating between sorrow and acceptance since I stopped interacting with my dad, but I experience more acceptance these days than I do sorrow. I know that I still experience anger at times, see ”bottled up misery” below, but as I express it in a safe place (here and with a trusted person), and in a safe way, and as long as I identify what it is I am feeling, it dissipates much more quickly and is not as destructive to me. In turn I am not destroying my relationships by being so locked in the past. La ...
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Boy I needed some ”head-pats” and you all stepped right up to the plate. I think it is odd the way we are supposed to act like we don’t need kudos or comfort or praise, when we all get low and crave it so much. I do think repressing that need is not healthy, but in my current world, there is a lack of it, so thanks guys for giving me what I need! In the process of changing and dealing with all this, I find that I am losing a lifelong fantasy that somehow dad would ”come around” and make all that old hurt right. I know that you, soulful, rememeber my old ranting posts from last year where ...
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Good set of instructions. These suggestions are things I can do. I do not have grave finacial troubles, though, I just don’t make a lot of money. I don’t even have credit issues. I hate credit, and keep it to bare bones minimum. I just don’t make gobs of money. I could use a little bit more each month, but on a personal level, I love what I do, and I love to be there and do it. But I don’t get rich on it, and I don’t care to be, that issue is more my being upset with him and his vision of me - I keep defending my choice of profession and my particulars that got me where I am, and defend ...
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Hey Fledg- I am just so tired. So many years of running the same loop in my head, wanting peace. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard ”just let go”. I wish it were that simple. Sure, anything that will help. Although I am better than what I was, I am lousy inside right now, I am angry at myself for being broke all the time, for not having normal stuff like health insurance and retirement, or money to chip in for things when we go somewhere - my boyfriend, who I just moved in with, thinks that i am ”irresponsible”, because I have to juggle my bills and don’t pay them on time. Th ...
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Yes, I do understand human nature too well. I have been told often by my clients that they like to run their stuff by me because I can see below the surface. You said ”you were stolen from your mother and grandparents (have you no regard for justice?) and your happiness was stolen from their dreams, your sister’s dreams, and worst of all, your past happiness was stolen from you (and that theft STILL invades your life, but it doesn’t have to continue).” That is a very true and profound statement, I wish that my therapist could have said that to me a long time ago. And all those years I ...
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Well thanks. Your reply brought a tear to my eye. I am smiling from ear to ear, knowing that you speak the truth, which is what I love to hear after a life of lies and bull. I guess you are right, in that case, he did great, cause I could live through nuclear holocaust I do believe, and so could the kids, as I have told them. They are experiencing stuff many kids don’t. and they ARE learning survival. I appreciate you.   [End]
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I was very badly abused by dad growing up. He slapped, punched and choked me, complete with shouting about all that he thought I was. He kidnapped us from my dear mom and grandparents, who had had no experience with a violent, narcissitic Italian guy. Because I was the oldest, and a girl, I was to fill in the role of wife and mother to my sister. This is covert sexual abuse, I am told. I left home at 17, because I thought he would kill me. He will tell you that it was because I was ”doing things”, like running away and smoking pot and sleeping with boys. And I ws doing those things, becaus ...
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Try to be nice to yourself. One thing I know - I would never treat others the way I treat myself. And if I treat myself poorly, others know they can too. Intuitively. You are articulate and express yourself well to us. When we are engaged with an abuser, we never know how they will react. Will they respond nicely or will they blow? This creates the confusing believe that we cannot communicate well. The truth is, THEY do not communicate well. Think about it. It is frightening to carry on a conversation with a short-tempered person. You may get great tolerance one minute, and have your h ...
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Perhaps you are trying to ”paint an objective picture” because as you are reading these posts, they are reacting in such a shocked way that you feel (in your warped perspective) that they are OVER reacting. The ”it’s not so bad” syndrome. That is absolutely typical of an abused person. I know, I was one - when people recoiled in horror at my stories of being hit choked, etc. I would do the exact same thing - oh, but we ALSO have SUCH a good time together, blahblah. It really is typical in your situation. STOP PAINTING THE OBJECTIVE PICTURE. THERE IS NO OBJECTIVE PICTURE WITH AN ABUSE ...
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I somewhat agree with you on this. Only somewhat. You are correct that the son has the right to his feelings, of course. And it indeed seems that the mother wishes to erase the harsh feelings and pushes to do so, understandably as well. However, I am detecting a strong case of ”beating mom over the head at every opportunity” syndrome, and here is where I disagree with the ”right” to be angry. Being angry is one thing. Vomiting anger at every opportunity is another entirely. We can all claim our ”rights”. ”I had a right to be angry”, ”I had a right to hit her , she pissed me off”, ”I had ...
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He is still alive. I tried everywhichway to have a relationship with him, but a relationship with him didn’t have good relating in it. I quit trying and talking to him in October last year. Long story, but I had a revelation that I could not resolve to have no more abuse in my life, yet keep him in my life. That made the resolution invalid. Yes, dad has an illness. He has cbronic and debilitating narcissism. And unfortunately, since it goes untreated, he is slowly dying from it. He has lots of money, but his daughters and grandchildren won’t go near him, his friends are leaving one by ...
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You and I share a common sort of background - and I agree with you. It is indeed difficult to feel sympathy for Alec when we have experienced being on the receiving end of an Alec. It is understandable that adults lose their cool, this is true, but I do believe that when it comes to the way that we speak to young people, then to talk like that is a high form of abuse. I don’t give a shit if you are mad at your ex-wife, or if she is a psycho, there is NO excuse. He did it, he should not justify, just make her an amend. I don’t care what the wife did or does, the daughter cannot afford th ...
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I think they do both. Particularly if there is a family tie. They will go away once they find a distraction that fills their need - some truly naive sucker - but they will pop up here and there forever, just in case you ”change your mind and come to your senses”. But it never hurt to pray that they do :)   [End]
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Hi Lakelight-- I remember your posts and have wondered how you have been or what you had decided to do. I certainly can understand how frustrated you are. My input might be biased, but only because I have gone through so much with my father over the years, that I am all about my own survival today, so I feel a bit protective of you, so forgive me if I seem ”against” your mom. It sounds to me that your mother is quite an emotionally and spiritually ill person. Her vileness toward you, her pronouncements of you, her ASSAULT of you is intolerable by people who didn’t grow up in it. I t ...
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http://drirene.com/abuserpages.htm   [End]
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I waited 44 years for dad to ”get it”. If he went ”aha”, then he would crumble to the ground, I swear. For without all that ”stuff”, they are hollow. They are held together by lies and manipulation and the self serving nature of their disorder will not allow them to see the harm they inflict on others. For they really are not aware that there is anyone outside of ”them”. Their ”feelings” only relate to how THEY feel. There is no one else. My mother, sister and I have a saying that we frequently refer to when we talk about something that dad ”did”. It is ”remember, you don’t exist”. T ...
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From experience I can tell you that your daughter may be a long way yet from even beginning to understand what happened to her. Intellect and self esteem have really very little to do with saving you from the ravages of a narcissistic partner. They are cunning and baffling and powerful. http://drirene.com/abuserpages.htm There are pages on this site that describe narcissists in great detail, as well as the effects on their children and victims. I strongly urge you to check this out, as it really gave me perspective and understanding. I grew up with a very abusive dad- kidna ...
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Yeah, I can really relate. Dad will die, there is no answer to why, and you go the rest of your life with that unsolved equation. It is one of the great mysteries, and it allows for no comfort. I guess that acceptance isn’t always comfortable. I know that I no longer OBSESS about why, but I still ponder from time to time. That is a relief, as I used way too much energy obsessing. But you know, I guess it is just okay not to know. I am still much stronger today than I was, I am happy to be me, and I am glad to talk with you all on this forum. It is helping the healing process alon ...
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I would write dad letters, then ask him about them and he would tell me that he never even read them. He knew the contents and would not face them. It gave me shivers to know you had the same experience. I am inclined to agree with you that they are ”born without a soul”. And for years - up till the last few months, I wondered, pondered, asked - what happened to dad that made him this way?? What terrible abuse or neglect?? And I realized that I had been terribly and horribly abused - neglected needs, beaten to unconsciousness, choked, psychologically manipulated, emotionally devasta ...
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I cracked up at the thought of swearing out a restraining order on that old, gimp-legged man, but then I had to sit still and think. It IS stalking behavior to call and come by and all. I think the reasons he does this are power and control, as well as the fact that at 73, and in questionable health, he has discovered that he has lost everyone - I was the last hold out, and now I have bailed, too. In the past, he would ”simply” explain the ”frustrations of being a father”-this after being violent with me. I recall seeing the tremendous release and relief that he got from beating me, wh ...
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Great thread!! I stand corrected, soulful, on the difference between babies and adult N’s. Makes sense. My dad passed the test, too. I felt a strange familiarity at the ”going through other people” dialogue, too. Dad always tries to get me alone to talk or interact with me. He, for YEARS, has gotten on my case for telling my sweethearts about my abusive childhood, he keeps so many secrets and lies - he has exwives that don’t know he was married before, etc. He had girlfriends that thought he was so much younger than he is - I wonder how he explains his 44 yr old daughter, 24 yr old ...
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I once heard that babies are consummate narcissists. Think about it a bit and it makes sense. As a child develops, they are supposed to learn ”other-thinking” - that there are others in the world - other people, other feelings, other ways of expression,etc. I think a narcissist is arrested in that development and never outgrows that ”I AM ” factor that a baby has. Only they have bigger bodies, a developed intellect, money and many other tools to take down their destructive path with them....   [End]
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Reading your posts with interest - over the years that I re-created my relationship with my abusive narcissistic father with other abusive men, I noticed a startling phenomena - they used exactly the same words, the same phrases, the same tones - my sister got involved with a weenie, and she would call and tell me what he said and I could almost exactly predict what he would say or do next. We thought we would write a book called ”The Protocol of an A**hole” - we could have lists of all the words they use and what they mean (to THEM) and then we could make lists of what they will say an ...
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HI Soulful!! I thought maybe you left - no posts from you lately - does it seem like there is some weird stuff going on on these sites?? I wonder why I have to defend all this - and will contemplate today. I really appreciate your posts - you have grace whereas I get passionately defensive, you are well-informed whereas I am raw pain. Sure have missed you   [End]
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uh, my father beat my mother my mother left my father my father kidnapped my sister and I my father isolated us and dragged us all over the country told me he loved me my father said stuff like ”family is all there is” and ”you’re the little wife now” told me he loved me my father started to beat and choke me told me he loved me my father told me if I told, we would be in foster homes and that my sister and I would be seperated from each other told me he loved me my father would threaten suicide told me he loved me my father told me he was trying to figure out how to kill me ...
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so start a forum for battered husbands - you know, us gals that kick our husbands asses and choke threaten to kill them - us gals that stalk you poor men, and point our fingers in your faces and tell you what a worthless whore you are - you know, us abusive women that beat a man till he has to go to the emergency room and lie as to why he got the concussion - poor guy, no wonder he can’t leave - his woman didn’t act right and she intimidated him through fear and control and threats until he was so confused that he stayed, thinking that if HE just acted different, or was quieter, or a bette ...
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I really really hope that for your sake, you never end up where we were. The Forces that Be, or God or whatever you want to call it has a way of taking the ego down a few pegs - I really do hope for your sake that you have life down pat. It’s good to note that someone out there really does have such a grip on others and on themselves that they will NEVER make a mistake. Wow.   [End]
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I made the mistake of posting a similar view in the Beaten Wives forum and got raked pretty harshly over the coals by SK - so I hope the same does not happen to you. I thought I was speaking from love and concern and got told to mind my own business. Seeing that SK knows for certain that she has just cause to stay, I apologized, agreed and will ”get over it” as she instructed me to do.   [End]
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Shells of human beings that are born without souls. Wow. I have thought that for years. That was the only explanation that made sense to me, for how can a person have a soul and deliberately hurt someone. Dad has told me that he had ”the frustrations of being a father” when he beat me. That he felt better when he was done, as I sat there hurt and battered. He felt better, I developed an eating disorder. He felt better, I suffered terrible relationships. He felt better,made gobs of money, and I struggled financially all my life for lack of appropriate upbringing and education. ...
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marilyn - I never did anything. Nothing at all. My dad beat me like your picture, and I went on to men who did the same for years. And I did nothing. Any ”noise” I did make was soon silenced by the power and control I thought they had. So I respect you and want to offer you encouragement. I know what ”terrified” means to people who have faced what we faced, so I find you brave and strong. So much has been coming to the surface for me lately - I just want to heal - and I do wish I would have done something... Best wishes and we are with you   [End]
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Sometimes it’s just funny in a sick, not funny way, you know?? :) My God-centered Holy man in Recovery ex-husband was surfing teen p 0 r n the entire time we were together, up to and past our marriage - even was emailing girls with screen names like ”blowjob betty” and stuff and had phone numbers in his phone of women supposedly he was ”helping” in the program. This man told people that he was the special mouthpiece of God, he was Mensa, all that junk. I never saw the p 0 r n till the day I changed the locks. I only saw MSN games in the History - but I do know how to access the Temp F ...
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I have felt for years that my dad really and truly believes his own reality, and after marrying and divorcing his double, I concluded that it was so. It was as if they lived in another dimension, another reality. When I say to you, see the purple ball, you may see a purple ball, but they see a purple oval, and that is reality for them. It cannot be round. Even though God made it round, they see an oval. It’s just damned freaky. By the way, I can spot one a mile away now, by listening to their reality, and I know the only thing to do is...back away slowly then RUN LIKE HELL. I am in ...
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boy oh boy, I am sitting here just humbled by your story. You really are a soulful survivor, i am sorry for your grief. My dad was an air force mechanic in the late 50’s - never saw any action outside of his airbase, and was honorably discharged because of an auto accident that injured his knee - I have his papers, which he doesn’t know. Now I remember hearing that he injured his knee playing football for the Packers - line o’ s__t - my son has heard that he was a bomber pilot in the Korean War, and he told some guy - while I was sitting next to him mind you - that he was in Vietn ...
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Yeah, no cable or satellite for me either, and I don’t miss it. My mom once told me ”do not subscribe to popular culture”. I get it... I once told my darling that if she ever called CPS that they would take me to jail and her to foster care, but that if I got out, I would beat the crap out of her, so it wouldn’t be worth the vicious cycle of beatings. lmao - tongue in cheek of course. I have SUCH a low tolerance for abusive behavior, and speak up about it in a firm manner - she was trained by my abusers - I watch that same behavior - when confronted with her poor character or behavior, ...
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I get you on that. I make it a point - no, a spiritual duty - to live in sunch a way as to not be a detriment to another human - this only occured forme after living with and loving abusers all of my adult life. I got so battered in all areas by them, and I swear, now that I am free of them, that I will never, ever maliciously or insidiously treat ANYONE. I find that I have to work hard at this, do you know how hard it is NOT to road rage or retaliate with ”tit for tat” tactics?? I go through this with my teemager- children and young adults are still dealing with the normal narcissistic ...
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One thing I noted is that you seem to be maybe looking for that ”madly in love” feeling?? Note the ”madly”! lol . I was involved with the hitter the cheater and the verbal abuser, they were tornados roaring through my life, and the last one damn near killed me. The one thing I note today is - they all started being exactly what I wanted and man, was it passionate. One sip of them and I went ”boom”. I was smitten and once they knew I was smitten, it was on... once I decided that I had enough, I backed away from the idea that I knew anything about relationships and what was right for me. I ...
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How funny - my ex-abusive-jerk husband was an alcoholic in recovery with 12 years clean! He believed that God spoke only to him - and God always told him what a wanton and bad wife I was - Scott would say that I just didn’t have an understanding of what intimacy was about (”into-me-see” lmao), and that I was just a poor battered woman who was running from true love. Oh, did I mention that I found quite a stash of internet p 0 r n and emails to other women on adult sites - we were married 4 months. He was a nightmare, this Godly man who surfed p 0 r n and pronounced judgement on EVERYONE ...
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I absolutely 100% agree !!!!! I, too, married very briefly a severe narcissist. It was the weirdest thing that ever happened to me - like dr. jekyll and mr. hyde. It took me 4 months to file for divorce, and a few years to research and understand what happened to me. The Malignant Narcissist is a very good book. You know one of the things I realized is that I grew up with a severe narcissist for a parent, and he literally destroyed everything and everyone in his path, all the while appearing highly successful and charming, etc. Behind the scenes he was hidiously abusive - he destroyed ...
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