Thanks for your reply and for being civil with me. What I’m saying is that a nation is basically a tribe - a unit bound by shared ancestry, language, culture, and religion - according to the Biblical and generally traditional worldview. The US at this point is a collection of various tribes and really many people who lack any tribal identity, but is unwilling to admit that, which I think is the cause of big problems related to the events at Charlotteville etc. I’m not saying that whether the nation you have been born into or reside in affects whether God hears your prayer, but just ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Your answer isn’t really an answer to my comment. Nations can and have indeed become Christian, and some have squandered that. Being born in a Christian nation does not guarantee salvation, but that doesn’t mean that nations aren’t of importance.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

The US are not a nation in a Biblical or in any real sense. A nation is an ethnic group. Nation and ethnos mean the same. Rather the US is an empire. In previous empires, ethnic groups would have their own (more or sometimes less) separate existance within the empire. Not so in the US, in which the ideology forcefully pushed by politics, media, edcuation, and all areas of public life is one of mixing of the ethnoi, with whites being marked as the target for extinction. That’s why there is a backlash, and pretending to be concerned about the backlash while ignoring the fact that the gene ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Wouldn’t see a reason why you couldn’t go for a swim.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Did you have the ability to rest or were you exposed to stress? If you were resting, intense hunger on day four seems unusual. Did you check whether you entered ketosis?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

’True hunger’ as the natural hygienists have it is supposed to return after fasting 40 days or something, when your fat reserves are completely depleted and you look like a skeleton with paper-thin skin. Nobody recommends that anymore, especially not outside a clinical setting. If you, however, mean that your body is genuinely asking for nourishment rather than your palate asking for enjoyment, you could have that simply by eating a slightly calorie-reduced whole-foods diet (as I explained in my other comment) and working out vigorously. Keep it that way be eating (somewhat) mindfully. ...
[retrieve this message]

---

During dry fasting I don’t have stools, but it all comes out afterward. As for during water fasting, why not try psyllium husks / powder? I think that would be healthier than epsom salts. You can take them in combination with epsom salts if it really won’t come out though. In any case if you do that, be sure to take in enough water. I have this fear that taking psyllium around a dry fast, the body would absorb all the water resulting in intestinal blockage... NOT good. As for constipation in general, exclusively whole-food plant-based diet centered on grains, legumes, potatoes, yam ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Well, two days isn’t really that much. Why do you do all this stuff? Epsom salts, vitamins, what’s the point to all this?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks for sharing your experience. That’s pretty reckless stuff. But so was my dry fast IMO... Definitely don’t try that after a dry fast. Especially not without hydrating proprely beforehand. Without hydration your body really isn’t prepared to take food, at least to my knowledge and personal experience.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

AFAIK the forum is down. It’s just available for reading. As for your question, I have no idea.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You should read through the ’dry fasting’ forum on fastingconnection.com and then read the ’questions for the fasting doc’ section also and decide what you want to do. It’s a lot to read, but it’s better to spend the time than be sorry later. There is no such thing as ’true thirst’ afaik, but there is dehydration, which can be dangerous. From what I have read (!) up to three days are considered safe when staying out of the sun and avoiding hard physical activity. Everyone says that you should build up slowly. It’s important that you are prepared and have the right mindset. If you pan ...
[retrieve this message]

---

For what it’s worth, when I tasted my perspiration when in the sauna while water (!) fasting, it tasted just like plain water. Not a hint of salty taste.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

That’s embarrassing. I didn’t pay any attention to the time settings. It’s working now.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Sorry for the delayed reply. I’ll be awaiting your next post concerning the book then. Thanks a lot for going to the trouble. I’m sure many people would profit if the book were available publicly again.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

”Severely dehydrated persons, such as people rescued from ocean or desert survival situations, usually have very high blood sodium concentrations. These must be very carefully and slowly returned to normal, since too-rapid correction of hypernatremia may result in brain damage from cellular swelling, as water moves suddenly into cells with high osmolar content.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_in_biology Sadly without a source! If true, it could explain why the Russian dry fasting doctors advise against taking any salt when breaking a dry fast.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks... Well, I *can* browse the site and open the links you kindly shared just fine. The only problem is that the search engine doesn’t work for me. When I search something, no hits are reported. If it works for you, then it must somehow have to do with my system / connection, which is weird. Great to hear that you could fix your type 2! Personally I can really tell how fasting improves insulin resistance, it’s quite amazing.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thank you again, Loquat. Actually, I had been reading my way through fastingconnection but hadn’t found the information on type I diabetes yet. For some strange reason, the search engine on the site doesn’t work for me. Actually I tried to sign up on the site but was informed that they don’t allow that for the time being. I also went on the doc’s site and the hydro clinic’s but to no avail. That’s why I came here to ask, hoping there might be someone with personal experience even. As of now, I don’t have any other specific question. I’ll need to somehow present fasting as a way of ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks a lot, Loquat! That was exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Very useful. Too bad Dr. Kruger doesn’t seem to be active on any online forums anymore and I haven’t found a source for his book either.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks, that’s not a study, though interesting enough. It’s fasting *mimicking* diet because it is supposed to mimick water fasting. I was asking specifically about water fasting, there is no mistake.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks Archon, So far I haven’t been able to find that study. If you remember any other keywords, please let me know. And, what does it mean they got better? Do you remember the reason Shelton would not fast type Iers? Personally I can’t think of a reason why not, after all, type I diabetics’ bodies would also switch to ketosis after having used up the glycogen stores...? I’m not asking for myself, btw, but for someone else I care about. The reason I thought of fasting is that Dr. Valter Longo has apparently had success with type I and II with his fasting mimicking diet, so f ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks, but that doesn’t answer my question. As for Newport, I found newporthealth.com, they don’t seem to sell a potassium-salt mix. What is that mix supposed to do for a diabetic?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Can people who have type 1 = insulin dependent (usually childhood onset) diabetes go on a waterfast? Does anybody have experience with that?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Do you also not walk when dry fasting? Fresh air and walking feels so good to me when I do that.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Seems like this problem is not unheard of: ”In very rare cases, the first sips of water might cause nausea. Then, every sip of water should be kept in the mouth, mixing it with saliva and then swallowing in about 20 - 30 seconds.” http://www.fastingconnection.com/index.php/articles-on-fasting/225-categories-of-fasting/all-about-dry-fasting/2827-cascade-dry-fasting (just for reference, I don’t recommend breaking the fast according to this article) Personally I’ve had the problem of discomfort in part of the throat when drinking after a dry fast, but it went away quickly. Can’ ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Recently I’ve been reading through the fastingconnection forum threads, specifically the Posts for The Fast Doctor section. There is a lot of information. Since Dr. Kruger has lots of experience and is an MD, I think that he is somewhat trustworthy, though obviously he is one person and as a natural hygienist has certain prejudices... That aside, what he has to say on breaking a *water* fast: - You should break it with whole fruit (juicing is not necessary) in small amounts and increase slowly. - Eating protein before the body’s want for energy is satisfied will lead to conversion o ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Realizing that I’m replying to a very old message... A coffee enema would not seem like a good idea after a longish fast either. Do you really want to put coffee in your intestines at this point? They might be in whatever weakened repair state. Also, are you sure you want gall in your intestines, for the same reason? I’m suspicious about coffee enemas in any case, not in the least because I think provoking bile flow into your intestines without any food being there could be irritating, but after a fast it seems especially unwise.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

If you gain weight from re-hydrating, that is a good sign. It means your body is assimilating the water you put in. On the other hand, frequent and / or high-volume urination would be a bad sign, a sign you’re taking in too much water and / or the electrolyte profile of your water / re-hydration solution is not the right one.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi all, recently I’ve done a 10 3/4 days dry fast, and am about to finish another 5 day dry fast which I started 11 days after ending the first one. I’ve taken notes during my 11 day fast, and maybe I’ll publish them at some point, but for now I just want to share what I’ve gotten out of the dry fast so far. Aside from previous fasting experience, I prepared myself by reading through all the threads of the dry fast sub-forum on fastingconnection.com as well as an article on zerocarbzen.com So now to what I’ve learned: - Dry fasting (even water fasting) can kill you. Treat it wi ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hello all, does anyone have experience with using essential oils - in a diffuser or inhaling straight from the bottle - and fasting? When I fasted last time, I used them quite a lot since I really enjoyed the smell, much more than at other times. However, I got intense pain in my digestive tract at some point. I wonder if the smell might trick the body into thinking that food is coming?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Sounds like an issue of electrolytes.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

So according to this info, Filonov does not recommend breaking with protein (just kefir, which I think is meant for the probiotic effect) but he wants no sodium for breaking the fast.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Here’s something I found (posted by fastician:) Day 1. You break your fast with a glass of water which you drink for 10 -15 minutes, mixing sips with saliva and swallowing. Then you can take a cool shower followed by a warm bath during which you can drink another glass of water. Next you make a ”compot” by boiling dry prunes and dry appricots without sugar, then drinking the liquid. You can drink that all day. Then 2 hours later you can have a glass of kefir (www.lifeway.net/). Then 4 hours later home made veggie soup but without salt. In the evening you can have some herbal ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Ten days... Never thought I’d make it that far. Couldn’t have done it if it weren’t for the cool weather and the snow I guess.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Well I hope that’s not the reason for the years of quiet on here...! Yes I’ve read that and taken note of the composition of the WHO solution, as that makes more sense to me than to go with pure sodium (which doesn’t mean that NaCl doesn’t work, it just seems that in case of low K it would make things worse)... Am a bit scared of the KCl though, as I’ve had bad experiences with that one (caused digestive distress.) So... what I’m doing now is I mix some salt with grape juice, water, and some kvass-like lacto-fermented drink (which contains no alcohol.) That seems to work quite well. ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Well, that’s the same again, and doesn’t fit in with the links you posted in your previous comments, i.e. the one saying too much glucose isn’t good, and the other one mentioning hypokalemia among the most common electrolyte imbalances. So I’m taking sugar and salt to not get too much glucose and to get up that potassium? That’s very confusing. As long as you’re not making sense I’d rather stick to the advice of people who have experience with dry fasting on a larger scale.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

One more thing: This link you posted says hypokalemia is among the most common fatal electrolyte imbalances: https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/11j03x/til_some_holocaust_survivors_died_within_their/c6n4cng/ While the home-made rehydration liquid mentioned in another link you posted contains sodium as the only electrolyte.. that seems very much like a contradiction (and the Russians say no sodium prior and after the fast) http://rehydrate.org/solutions/homemade.htm#recipe   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks a lot! Well, during the fast I passed urine regularly but in really small amounts, from day one, and now after 5l of water over two days there’s still not much coming out (compared to normally.) Does that mean my body is trying to spare electrolytes? By milk, you mean cow’s milk or any other milk of animal origin, I suppose? In light of your comments and links, the refeeding as suggested in my first comment does seem to make sense, as those foods are very low to zero in sugar and do contain the minerals you suggest. I am indeed feeling a bit off. So I might change my strate ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks.. does seem to ease it.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Drinking pure water after a dry fast seems standard procedure, also people on a water fast drink pure water, right? What would you suggest though?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi all, my small intestine seems to be in one hard lump which is painful to pressure. The area around the belly button a level deeper feels like one big hard lump, the size of a palm. Any ideas? Could this be due to gas from SIBO? I’m currently on my 11th day of fasting, thought this should have resolved by now. Thanks!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi all, 11th day in my fast, have been feeling a *strong* pain in my digestive tract. Getting so strong I’m shivering at times. Not curled up or crying yet, though. When I press between my navel and sternum, I can localize it somewhat. My guess is bile being dumped or acid reflux... Any ideas, tips, anything??   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I guess you could, but I’m not sure what nystatin would do to your gut flora, which is weakened during a fast afaik, because its not being fed. Maybe it could wreak havoc. Have you tried other things like S. boulardii? There are some herbal antibiotics which you might want to consider taking before going for the chemical weapon.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hello all, being aware on how fasts are normally supposed to be broken, I chanced upon an article which gives the following instructions for breaking a dry fast: The first two days after the Dry Fast must include drinking of pure water, EATING MAINLY FRESH PROEIN-RICH FOODS OF ANIMAL ORIGIN: fatty yogurt, cottage cheese, sour cream, cheese, fish and chicken broth, boiled fish, chicken, eggs, etc. http://www.fastingconnection.com/index.php/articles-on-fasting/225-categories-of-fasting/all-about-dry-fasting/2827-cascade-dry-fasting Does anyone on here have experience with breakin ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Hello all, being aware on how fasts are normally supposed to be broken, I chanced upon an article which gives the following instructions for breaking a dry fast: The first two days after the Dry Fast must include drinking of pure water, EATING MAINLY FRESH PROEIN-RICH FOODS OF ANIMAL ORIGIN: fatty yogurt, cottage cheese, sour cream, cheese, fish and chicken broth, boiled fish, chicken, eggs, etc. http://www.fastingconnection.com/index.php/articles-on-fasting/225-categories-of-fasting/all-about-dry-fasting/2827-cascade-dry-fasting Does anyone on here have experience with breakin ...
[retrieve this message]

---

This was 5 years ago but... I’ve never taken boric acid, only borax. Why take vitamin C with it? To neutralize the pH?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

People are worried about re-absorbing toxins from the ’stones’ excreted via the flush. So I’m wondering if anyone has tried taking something to bind toxins right with the flush ingredients, i.e. the oil and citrus. This is only a theory so far, but I don’t see how taking something like medicinal clay or medicinal charcoal, which are not digested in any shape or form, would hamper the mechanism of bile secretion triggered by the oil and ’stone’ formation in the gut. I’d rather think that taking them along with the protocol would prevent re-absorption of toxins.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks a lot. I guess it’s just about the fruit-derived acid then. I ordered some malic acid, maybe I’ll just use that.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Thank you for your reply. However, grapefruit juice (it’s what you mean by GFJ, right?) is citrus, so I can’t use it. I’ve tried that before, years ago, and the mixture sat in my stomach all night. I got into terrible pain, vomited with a lot of pain, had some relief until the pain returned and so forth. It was a nightmare. Recently I found out that I have histamine intolerance, and upon trial I learned that I react to citrus fruit, so that’s why. Hence my question. If it’s only about the acid, vinegar would be fine. If it’s about citric acid, I could buy that and use it, as I don’t thi ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Since I don’t tolerate citrus, I’m wondering whether it can be substituted in the flush, for example with vinegar. Does anyone have experience with that?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

As the title says... Thanks.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You clearly didn’t understand my post.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Where did you learn those wicked discussion skills? On the playground?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

The only people who are emotional are the two of you here. You pretend to be some kind of knights in shining armor saving people from the oh-so-dangerous-and-quacky flushing, but you don’t do it by providing your allegedly balanced view, you fling an angry mail typed in bold with lots of capitalization at anyone. Your attitude is patronizing... you treat everyone who differs as idiots while you consider yourselves to be the holders of the gospel of truth. If you make an assumption it becomes proof instantly - if someone else makes an assumption it’s a weakness and means they’re wrong (and ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Do you know what ”afaik” means? Doesn’t seem like it. How do you know the flush cannot remove big gallstones? Have you observed every single case in which somebody attempted a flush? Nice argumentation there. Ah yeah, ”balanced view” is implying that everybody who doesn’t consider the flushes complete humbug is an idiot for you guys, I guess...   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

How much clearer can the evidence be? Before flush: stones in the gallbladder. After the flush: no stones. Anyway, you can’t deny that the flush can remove gallstones from the gallbladder. A fatty meal can remove gallstones from the gallbladder, so naturally a flush can do that.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Really? Than maybe you should warn people about consuming high fructose corn sirup, soy products, canola oil etc. as these cost the life of many people everyday, whereas the gall bladder flush hasn’t ever killed anyone afaik. And you don’t even know about possible benefits of the flushes!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Yeah same attitude, you’re here to prove that you’re smarter than others, which your clearly not...   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I provided evidence via the case study. You just don’t want to accept any evidence that contradicts your view.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You clearly didn’t understand what I wrote.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I swear, it is like you and Lisa Marie are trying to outdo each other for the title of World’s Dumbest!!!! This is called an ad hominem attack. It’s really bad manners and lets me assume that your intention on here is rather to prove that you’re ”right” and others are wrong (idiots), so you can feel great about that, than for any real discussion. Apart from that, the way that you capitalize words, use numerous exclamation marks and the way you make phrases sometimes really make me wonder about your age and maturity.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

You think the one ”real” stone remained in the gallbladder? Wouldn’t they have noticed it on the ultrasound then?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Yes, I’m making assumptions, just as you are. The difference seems to be that you don’t realize this. Like so many I have lost my trust in the medical establishment a long time ago. Its exponents have failed to help me towards better health and shown considerable ignorance along the way on several occasions. In my quest for health, I’ve read a lot about different approaches towards nutrition. All of them seem to be supported by ample scientific evidence however contradictory they are, which has somewhat shaken my trust in that kind of evidence. That and the fact that so many people s ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Your just making assumptions. I would guess the flush was an unpleasant experience and most people will avoid those even if they help them. Nobody claims that one flush will get out all stones, also nobody claims that a flush will soften stones afaik. Malic acid etc. are supposed to soften stones. Why do you always use bold typing?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Because I have read repeatedly that the people who have problems with gall stones once are likely to have the same problems again.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I guess you’ve read that the same person had a gallstone that was surgically removed later. That makes it very likely that the ones flushed out were real.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

If you had pointed out that I posted in the wrong forum it would have been enough. My question was quite clear. Since you still posted, I drew this obvious conclusion...   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

... for the advice. I guess it’s my fault for posting in the wrong forum.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

My question: Has anyone here used the recipes on curezone that don’t require the use of Epsom Salts or enemas? How are they compared to the latter ones? There are these: http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/Are_You_Stoned.asp http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/grandma.asp and the gradual flush: http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/Gallbladder_Flush_7_day_program.asp I’d love to hear how successful these are because I don’t want to use epsom salts or enemas if I don’t have to.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

What’s your point anyway? Got too much time on your hands?   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

OK, I won’t go into a discussion here. I don’t care if the flushes work in removing gallstones, I don’t care about the nature of the ”stones” in the toilet bowl, the flushes work for symptoms of other problems and that’s what I’m after. PERIOD.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Can you please shut up, use your own thread, I’m asking for experiences here not for critique of the flusing in general.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

My question: Has anyone here used the recipes on curezone that don’t require the use of epsom salts or enemas? How are they compared to the latter ones? There are these: http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/Are_You_Stoned.asp http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/grandma.asp and the gradual flush: http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/Gallbladder_Flush_7_day_program.asp I’d love to hear how successful these are because I don’t want to use epsom salts or enemas if I don’t have to.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Nice, but not convincing. Actually people have used ultrasound to observe gallstones prior to and their absence after a flush. There is evidence for that: Savage, A. P., O’Brien, T. and Lamont, P. M. (1992), Case report. Adjuvant herbal treatment for gallstones. British Journal of Surgery, 79: 168. doi: 10.1002/bjs.1800790224 Ultrasound confirmed multiple gallstones, but after waiting months for a surgical option, the patient underwent a treatment with olive oil and lemon juice, resulting in the passage of four 2.5 cm by 1.25 cm stones and twenty pea-sized stones. Two years later sy ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Yeah, I try to do it 100%. Have been on it for a couple of weeks only. It’s incredibly hard to find raw butter and raw milk... I feel privileged I can find them at all!!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Recently I’ve started adapting to Aajonus Vonderplanitz’s ’primal diet’. Interestingly, for three days I had very big stools that consisted of yellow ’stones’ lumped together. They were very hard and looked like what I had previously gotten from liver flushes, except they were not greenish. Sadly I forgot to take photos... After that my stools have been coming easily and painlessly.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

I guess the mistake I made was to mix the borax into cold water. Once I put it into hot water, I didn’t have those issues anymore!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Chinagirl, after reading about borax I got interested and bought some. I took 1/8 tsp and put it in water as suggested. It made me really really nauseous however, I got a headache, foggy thinking, felt weak, tired & depleted for a few days. Also my joints hurt more than usually. I’ve also been taking 150ug of iodine per day. What could be the reason for this very strong negative reaction? Hans   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Well, you could make any cake with palm oil instead of butter because they have rather similar properties, I guess. Since you’re asking, I’ll include the recipe. I liked the taste, but it’s my own creation basically, so use at your own risk. cake: 4 egg whites (stiffly beaten with some salt) 60g palm oil (melted) 60g glutinous rice flour (or any other starchy flour) 30g sugar (I use Rapadura = dehydrated cane juice) 20g cocoa powder stevia according to taste (I used 1/3 tsp) vanilla Mix dry ingredients and fold into beaten egg whites. Fold in the oil. Bake for 25min in preh ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Hello everybody who’s reading this, yesterday morning Iafter taking my daily dose of vitamin-C powder (I take this as a laxative) I had diarrhea and passed several little ”stones,” or that might be what they are. The night before I had some cake with lots of palm oil, but didn’t do any ”liver flush” or anything. Could these be gall stones? http://curezone.com/ig/i.asp?i=37046 http://curezone.com/ig/i.asp?i=37047 http://curezone.com/ig/i.asp?i=37048 http://curezone.com/ig/i.asp?i=37049 http://curezone.com/ig/i.asp?i=37050 I didn’t get them all out of the bowl, ...
[retrieve this message]

---

Thanks for your answer. Sadly grapefruit is also bad, because people with a fructose malabsorption also usually do not tolerate fiber well, and any kind of fruit is just full of fiber. I know I do not tolerate it well... If I drink all that juice, it will interfere with my digestion for the next couple of days.   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---

Hi, I was wondering if I could do the liver flush without the apple and lemon juice, because I’ve got a fructose malabsorption and therefore can’t handle them well. Thanks a lot in advance!   [End]
[retrieve this message]

---