Gallstones, liver health and Liver Flush - an interview with Dale Williams
This interview have been conducted by email.
Members of “Gallstones” email support group ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones ) asked Dale Williams about his experience with gallstones, liver health and liver flush. To contact Dale Williams, please subscribe to Gallstones email support group and then post your question to the group! Dale has not capacity to answer questions directed to his private email address.
Q: Please tell us about gallbladder and liver attacks …
I'm quite familiar with the feeling of a gallbladder and liver attack. I had many from February to October of 1999. I can still remember the diagnosis and my doctor's request that I setup a schedule, with a surgeon that he knew, to have my gallbladder removed within a couple of weeks after that diagnosis.
Well, I didn't get it taken out, I researched the web for information and after coming across Julia Changs information on top of Hulda Clark s and a couple of others I decided to do the gallbladder flush.
Granted it really was a leap of faith for me because I only had the scant information that I was able to gleam about the good the flushes could do, and have done for so many others.
Q: What would you suggest to person suffering gallbladder or liver attacks?
I would suggest that you get Dr. Sandra Cabot's book "The Liver Cleansing Diet" for some very pertinent information regarding the liver and how to maintain it. Dr. Cabot's book will certainly enlighten you to the foods to eat, and just what the liver needs to function properly. I pronounce, from the rooftops, the help her book has been to me.
Some things to do right now are:
The top of the list is to avoid all saturated fats like those that coagulate, such as bacon grease does when it's poured from the skillet and cools. Also avoid hydrogenated oils. These are usually oils that at one time may have been good for the liver but now work against it and over burden it. Hydrogenated oils are those you get with deep frying or in such foods as processed cheeses and margarines. Avoid other processed foods such as breads that are not whole grain.
Supplement with lecithin, around 2400 to 4800 mg of lecithin a day. Take two in the morning and two in the evening with one or more 500 mg of taurine taken anytime. These help to keep the cholesterol suspended, or
emulsified much the same as dish detergent works on the fats that are washed off the dinner plates.
Take note of foods that stimulate the gallbladder. Certain foods will tend to cause a minor type of attack because of the good it's doing for the liver and gallbladder. Foods like cabbage, pecans, beets are pretty stimulating and may tend to at the least cause a discomfort but it's not because it's doing anything bad, it's just stimulating the liver and/or the gallbladder to function. When I was having my worst attacks in "99" it took me awhile to figure out what good foods were causing me to have attacks even though I was avoiding all fats. (Avoiding all fats, including EFAs, wasn't a good thing but I hadn't read Dr. Cabot's book at that time to know any better of what to eat)
Don't be afraid of eating foods that contain fats as long as the fats that they contain are of the type that are essential to the liver's good health. One such food is avocado. So, getting on a diet which contains essential fatty acids can actually cause the loss of inches. Since the liver is the fat burning tool of the body when it's in good working order the body starts to burn off excessive fat.. I can assure you that I've lost my Sumo gut since changing the types of foods I'll eat. I use to look like I was pregnant. I still may not be as thin as I could/should be, but then I tend to eat foods I didn't dare a year or so ago, but, I am able to get into suits I couldn't button in front of me, with room to spare, for quite a number of years.
There are some other things to consider too regarding the liver, gallbladder, and colon synergistic. You will be wanting to eat foods that contain a goodly amount of dietary fiber in the form of what it called soluble fiber and non-soluble fiber. Soluble fiber is described as that which will become like a gel in the intestines and absorb the bile from the liver, like psyllium. Where non-soluble fiber is that which will just move through the body without being changed much in it's state, like the kernel shell of corn. You'll want this because it will be taking out the excess fat that the liver will be depositing to the intestines as a bile containing in it cholesterol. By having it move through the system fairly quickly there is little reabsorbtion of the cholesterol or fats, with the end result being a reduction of LDL cholesterol the main reason for most gallstones.
I can't say enough about making sure of getting enough water each day too. This is also very important, along with exercise and a diet void of the wrong types of fats.
Another great help for reducing the pain is the use of a Castor Oil Packs. To make one you just need castor oil, a cotton roll, a sheet of plastic (small trash bags work great), a towel, and a hot water bottle. Use just enough cotton roll to go across the whole of the abdomen at the lower rib cage, saturate the cotton with the oil, lay it across the abdomen, and then put a plastic bag on top of that. Next the towel is used because the hot water bottle may be too hot to start with and the towel will damper the heat. When the temperature goes down remove the towel and put the bottle directly on the plastic until around a half hour to an hour of use is done. Save the roll of oil in another plastic bag for use later as you can get a number of uses from one cotton roll.
The Castor Oil Packs is also a very good precursor to the gallbladder and liver flush. It can be done most anytime during the period when the Epsom Salts or other cleaner is being used to clear the bowels.
There are of course other things to consider too, such as colon cleansing and parasite cleansing but for right now your greatest interest is getting foods that will be working toward the health of the liver. When that's being done the other things can be added to help the process along.
Q: In your experience, is it possible to pass larger stones by flushing liver and gallbladder?
I have had some pretty sever attacks, four lead to hospital visits from February to October of 1999. That is the reason I started learning about how to do the flushes, and have had the great results that I have had.
If you take a look in the Files at the Gallstones group site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones/files you’ll notice there are a number of pictures posted of stones that have been collected and photographed, I've posted one there to, I have one picture that shows one stone of which is around 17 to 18 mm in size. That's around 3/4 of an inch in diameter.
So, was I able to pass a large stone?
Will other people be able to pass as large gallstones?
That is up to their body, but keep in mind the stretching capacity of the uterus when giving birth and you'll have a good idea of just how elastic the bile duct is likely to be too.
It is only obvious to me that a large stone can pass because of having passed a large stone, several of them for that matter. When I had an MRI in February of '99' I was told that it was 'A' stone and couldn't ascertain the exact size of it from either the doctor or the hospital radiologist. So, I first started with a diet close to void of fat and along with that started taking herbs and other concoctions to attempt to breakup the stone's size. I must have been successful because in October when I had a liver attack because I'd avoided taking in all fats for over a month the ultrasound showed that I had no stones, that my gallbladder was healthy, as well as my liver excepting the larger bile duct sizes that showed up... Gee, I wonder if having a baby makes things a little larger for a while too.
The worst thing I did was avoiding all fats when the body needs fats to run properly. I learned that from reading Dr. Cabot's information in her book "The Liver Cleansing Diet", for which I sent just after the doctor reported to me that my liver was now in bad shape. Blood tests showed that my enzyme levels were not good and this was more than likely because I had avoided all fats. Dr. Cabot's book pointed me to this fact. Fat in the way of Essential Fatty Acids is necessary for cellular structure and strength.
So, I would from my view say it's quite possible to pass very large stones, to the chagrin of a surgeon's knife.
Q: Dale, how about pain? Have you been able to avoid pain – Gallstones attacks?
To elaborate a little bit more on the subject of no more pain after having flushed for a while, I'll try to explain so that it is repeated one more time for the whole group.
Before my first gallbladder attack, that is the one that sent me to the hospital, I had other more minor attacks. These were just preempting what was to come; they were painful but nothing like the times I went to the hospital. I had my first hospital visit on February 16th, very early in the morning around 03:00. They did an x-ray of my body in the abdominal area but found nothing. Three days later I had another attack and this time they did an MRI and found my gallbladder to be thickened and to have "A" stone, as they called it. My follow up with the doctor got me a request to call a particular surgeon within the next two weeks and schedule an appointment to have my gallbladder removed. I never called. My doctor did however provide me a prescription for pain medication to deal with any further attacks even after I had started doing the flushes.
I ended up going the he hospital two more times over the next seven months. The third trip happened because I had fallen off the wagon, so to speak, because I was getting away with eating pretty freely whatever I wanted again thinking I'd gotten rid of my stones completely but I had only done one flush so far. The third trip was on March 22nd of that year. From then on I was being much better about what I ate and when I ate. I would still have attacks and was surprised at some of the attacks because I'd eaten good foods that were not hydrogenated or of saturated animal fats. However, they did contain foods that stimulated the liver and gallbladder… and that was what caused me attacks that would have me taking up to four roxicets to get rid of the pain. I always said if I had to have more I needed to go to the hospital for that type of pain management.
The last trip to the hospital was on October 27th of '99', and the problem wasn't because of having "A" or any stones.
I was having liver damage with Hepatitis showing its ugly head. I was, according to an extensive ultrasound, stone free and my liver and gallbladder looked perfectly healthy otherwise, except for the enlarged bile ducts and the report noting AST, ALK, ALT and bilirubin to be off the chart along with Hepatitis C and B showing in the mix. It didn't show the C and B as now active just that it was there previously.
Well, this prompted me to start studding a bit deeper into my new liver problem. That was how I came to be aware of the Liver Doctor Dr, Sandra Cabot and her book "The Liver Cleansing Diet". I read her book and it all came to light what I had done wrong in attempting to rid myself of the gallstones. The worst thing I had done was to resolve not to eat any fat products, what so ever. I literally avoided all foods with any sort of fat.
The problem with avoiding all fats is that the liver needs fat. It needs the fat to produce the cholesterol that is necessary for the liver and body's cellular structure. Talk about feeling like a fool for not taking more time to do more in depth research regarding gallbladder cleansing. I went right out and got all kinds of fats to eat. I mean to tell you I got avocados, flax seed oil, hemp oil, and primrose oil. I started eating primrose oil while driving my truck. I would get urges to have gulps of flax seed oil or hemp oil. My body was craving it for months. I don't get those cravings now but I still keep taking in fats as best as possible and avoid, like poison, hydrogenated oils and saturated animal fats. Don't get me too wrong here, I have, on occasion now, eaten some mighty fine prime rib but I have also avoided eating the juicy fat that comes with it like I use to do. I use to have to avoid eating things containing cole slaw and pecans too because of how strong a stimulant they are for the liver and gallbladder, but now I can eat these without any problem.
Some of the protocols that I used are these:
The standard oil and fruit juice flush using fresh squeezed grapefruit juice and the most virgin of olive oils I could buy. I would often preempt my flushes by fasting for twenty four to forty eight hours or more and drink only fresh squeezed apple juice for that time period with some other fresh squeezed juice like my special drink of a twenty four ounce carrot juice drink containing 1/4 of a beet, two Celery sticks, one ounce of parsley, and one half of a whole lemon. (must keep it stirred to enjoy the lemon at all levels, - now my mouths watering)
I also would do castor oil packs and have colonics, which would also have ozone insufflated with it after around an hour of being connected. The ozone would be added for approximately one half, to an hour, or the saturation point. (saturation can be noted by an almost burning sensation in the throat, or the skin getting pretty pink, especially the palms) Usually there will be more liver dumps happening after the ozone is turned off and you start working towards clearing out the bowels to be disconnected.
So, I hope this was the information of which you wanted. And I hope you see there are more ways in which to approach keeping your gallbladder inside you, and not thrown into a trashcan. It does however take resolve, lots of it.
Q: Dale, what about weight gain or weight loss?
I lost my sumo gut and have been pretty successful in keeping it off for the last three years because of my diet changes. Also by using the flushing to help in keeping my liver and gallbladder working better it has help in my keeping it off.
Q: Dale, there was a lot of debate on the formation of gallstones. What is your opinion?
There certainly has been some very good debate of late regarding the formation of bile stones. I can appreciate much regarding the points presented, but I just thought I'd drop a line regarding the way they form and why they form.
I must say, one of the more interesting points was regarding the stones forming with the use of an oil causing as much bile to be dumped into the intestines as possible and that they then form from the oil and bile mix as it passes towards the exit point. This is quite contradictory to what the bile actually does. It would be like saying that mixing gasoline with grease causes the grease to thicken into globs of grease.
Now as regards the formation of bile stones in the liver I thought this article would at least shed some light regarding its danger. But, I don't endorse this produce as I feel diet, exercise, and just plain common sense should help most people in dealing with bile stones of the liver, or gallbladder. http://www.gicare.com/pated/ursodiol.htm
The fact that we, as humans, are all different and yet the same, can certainly effect the results of how a flush of the liver and gallbladder will turn out. Some of us have been subjected to various toxins earlier in life, or are being subjected to it on a daily basis today in the form of chemicals used for various forms of cleaning, the foods that we eat, or just from the air that we breath. Our skin is absorbing an amazing amount of toxins without our even knowing it. Some toxins can have a vary adverse effect pretty quickly as in the case of handling some chemicals like bug sprays that affect the brain when ingested from either the skin, nose, or mouth. The one organ that has to handle detoxifying of all these chemicals is the liver. It is the main organ of the body for input and output and the amount of input with everyone has been, and is at the present time, different. Therefore just on this basis alone we have differences of how an attempted cleansing of the liver or gallbladder is going to turn out.
I now consider seeing small gallstones as a very positive effect of my diet, exercise, and flushing. My earlier examples in "99" have been noted by a pathologist as being gallstones, but they certainly were not small by any means. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones/files/Gallstones.jpg
As regards the formation of stones in the liver, it happens but it doesn't necessarily mean that all stones start forming in the liver and are then transported to the gallbladder to become larger. That can happen, but isn't quite as likely as it would be for them to form right there, inside the gallbladder itself. It isn't because of the removal of the water, and its becoming more concentrated, it has to do with the information presented earlier in this letter as noted from the website to which I'm pointing. It has to do with too much of one thing or another being in the bile causing a precipitation of either the calcium salts and bilirubin, or cholesterol. Looking at this picture you can see that some liver stones get pretty darn big. http://dbs.kumc.edu/dmd/?MIvalObj=664
The simple fact that the removal of the water from the bile doesn't have an effect on the cause for precipitation of gallstones can be noted from the fact that you don't find any mention of that in any of the websites to which I can point, or anyone can find. It is like saying that a detergent becomes solid when it has an oil mixed in with it and all the water is removed, it just won't happen, it will be a concentrated soap containing oil or an oil containing a soap, i.e. detergent. I use a detergent to emulsify the grease and oil I get on my hands when working on a vehicle or other grease latten object. I can take that grease-laden mix off my hand and leave it in the sun to attempt to dry but it won't. It will get thick again but with the addition of water it can certainly become an emulsive once again and wash off the platter on which it may have been placed.
I am very fortunate in that my success with the flushing, and continued maintenance of my liver has kept me in pretty good health, over all, and especially considering that I was bedridden in "95" for two months with Chronic-Fatigue-Syndrome and Arthritis tearing me up. So, I can't help but to be a proponent of the cleansing of the liver, gallbladder and colon as it has brought me to the health I am able to enjoy today. And like so many, I just wish I'd known what I do today when I was much younger so I wouldn't have to deal with the pains I've acquired and continue to acquire as this body ages to destruction. I can only hope that I can keep up maintaining away from the pain that I know is sitting just off to the side if I were to not keep up a healthy life style.
Q: What is the link between reabsorbtion of bile and diet?
I would like to help you to understand that flushing just starts the cleansing process of getting the gallbladder and live back to a healthy condition. It is much the same as trying to clean up an oil spill it just isn't all gotten with one quick swipe of a rag.
I didn't like the idea of losing something with which I had started my life and so because of that started my research on the gallbladder and alternatives to having it cut out. I started flushing after doing some preliminary work of detoxing and changing my diet from a high fat to a much reduced intake of fat. Of course at the time I really didn't understand the differences in fats and my misunderstanding led to some other problems later, after I was now stone free, and had a gallbladder that looked as normal as another gallbladder would in an ultrasound.
I too thought that after having done my first flush I was totally stone free and that I could eat a nice meal at a restaurant without having to worry about the attacks again. Little did I know at that time that it was going to be some months before that would be a reality, and after a lot of attacks that would occur when I would fall off the wagon, so to speak. Even though I now can eat pretty much with impunity, I still will get warning notes of discomfort if I eat things that are too fatty with hydrogenated fat or animal fat, which is a saturated fat. But, I still have my gallbladder and it appears from my movements that it's working just fine.
Flushing is something that the body would normally do without you even being concerned with the process if you happened to be eating the right combinations of foods, along with exercise, and didn't have some genetic predisposition to a particular disease. So, I can certainly appreciate just how you feel about being locked into doing something so distasteful as taking Epsom Salts , and then a concoction of extra virgin olive oil and a fresh squeezed fruit juice.
The important thing to remember is the fact that stones didn't occur without the body having something out of balance. So, sometimes it just takes more time to get back the balance it needs to function correctly, or at least good stubble. Flushing isn't a silver bullet to good health that one shot does it. Shoot, even if you take an Antibiotic you have to take it religiously to hopefully kill a bacteria infection, and if it happens to be a wound it may be necessary to clean that wound daily while the healing process is taking place.
Needless to say, but disease leads to dis-ease and that is from which we're all trying to get away.
I did have successful Gallbladder/ Liver Flush by use of a colonic. This was done by fasting for around 21 hours and then drinking a mix of grapefruit juice and four plus ounces of pure cold pressed extra virgin olive oil around three hours before starting the colonic.
I was a bit disappointed to see as many stones as I did, but then I really wasn't all that surprised either. I have been cheating too much as to what I've been eating of late and I'm sure that this successful but disappointing flush was the result of that cheating. I had numerous stones in the pea size and lots of much smaller ones too. Because of only being able to see some pass on their way by in the viewing tube I was not able to distinguish the chaff as easily. After being off the machine I had to relieve myself one other time that night and it had around six of the larger stones with a number of the smaller type with little chaff.
There is one interesting thing to note about all of this and that's the fact that for the olive oil to have become sapponified in a three to five hour time period would be next to impossible to have happened. In fact I did have oil in the stool as well as on the viewing tube glass. So, it simply moved right on through without time to change its properties.
I have found this process of flushing to be so much easier for me than taking the Epsom Salts to get the bowels clean, which is just another note to recognize that Epsom Salts isn't always needed to get a good result.
Some who are familiar with colonics may be wondering how I could tell the stones were passing in the view tube. Well, that comes from being the one in control of the flow and supply valves and being able to make the flow much slower or even stop (it's not to comfortable to stop with it on a flow it but it's still possible, I just slow it). These also didn't start to show up until around the hour and a half time period, after the ozone started being used too. The confirmation of what I was seeing pass in the view tube was in the still water of the toilet bowls I used after being disconnected from the machine. One was from one last dump there and then the one this morning at home.
Q: Can you give us advice about Lecithin? I have heard that it is a
supplement that breaks down fat intake and can prevent cholesterol
build-up in your body. This would slow down or eliminate the
production of stones from what I can gather?
Lecithin, approximately 2400 to 4800 mg a day, is something I've been taking since November of 99, as a near daily routine.
Despite my best intentions to take it daily I do tend to get out of the house with too much on my mind and therefore tend to forget to take my supplements.
The thing that lecithin does is something like the way dish detergent does with fats, it keeps it emulsified. This helps in the prevention of its precipitating from the bile salt that the liver produces. But just like the ratio of water to detergent and the fats being cleaned off or out can result in there being a precipitation of the fat on the side of a sink, or in the case of a liver or a gallbladder there too. However, it isn't a cure-all for the liver health enthusiast because there is a lot more to the liver than just taking in this one essential fatty acid. Lecithin is certainly worth taking on a daily basis to help the liver's bile to be able to hold the fats that are being taken out of the body, much the same as the dish detergent is holding the fats in it, but it is also necessary to get more essential fatty acids from other sources too.
Use of other things along with the essential fatty acids, and a diet without the hydrogenated and saturated fats, can work over time to get rid of some types of stones. But it does take a lot of time for those that are calcified. That is, those that are made from calcium deposits. They just don't break down that easily nor do they flush out as easily as the cholesterol type of stones.
If someone is trying to get out the calcified type of stone it will mean laying on the left side rather than the right to hopefully get the stone placed at the neck of the gallbladder to get it into the common bile duct and out of the body.
Some things that can be used are Gold Coin Grass - which can be obtained from Julia Chang, hydrangea root - which can be found at some health food stores, and chanca piedra - which can be ordered from Rain-Tree or some others http://rain-tree.com/chancaprod.htm