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SCIENCE: How do we know that stones are formed inside liver?
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Published: 19 years ago
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SCIENCE: How do we know that stones are formed inside liver?

How do we know that stones are formed inside liver?
Why aren't doctors aware of the fact that stones are formed inside liver?

If you don't want to be aware of something, then you just don't want, and nobody can help with that.

Are there any data that prove fact that stones are formed inside liver?

A lot, if you want to search for it.

A friend of mine, Lillian, was working in a hospital in Oslo where surgeries are performed daily.

She has seen files of hundreds of patients who came back with a pain, stone lodged inside common bile duct, AFTER gallbladder was removed some times ago.
She has even read files of people who were coming back 7 times for the same procedure, once every year!

Where do their stones come from? Gallbladder that was removed 7 years ago?

I have read several stories of people suffering from the stone lodged inside common bile duct, sometimes just a few days after surgery, sometimes years after surgery.

The only place where those stones could have been formed is inside bile ducts.

If it is intrahepatic bile ducts, or it is common bile duct, we don't know, but most likely it is intrahepatic bile ducts.

Regardless, the fact is, bile ducts can hold bile, bile can become stagnant, and stones can be formed inside bile ducts.
If you are unable to understand this, or to accept this, then I can't help you.

Do you need more proof that stones are formed inside liver?

Why aren't doctors aware of the fact that stones are formed inside liver?
There are 3 possible answers:

1. They are stupid and unable to make that conclusion (most likely not).
2. They are smart but they don't want to risk loosing patients or don't want to go against the mainstream.
3. They are smart but someone told them not to think too much about that, if they want to keep their job.

You pick the answer(s) that most likely describes your doctor.

Few stories: (Read it!)


Subject: Re: Re: Liver cleanse w/ parasite and Colon Cleanse while breastfeeding
From: Lisa < Lisa >
Date: 11:38 Jan 05 2002

> Do you, as health profesional, have any contact with people after surgery ?

My job is to assist the doctor, with images, while doing the surgery. I really don't inter-act with the patient much after sugery except for an occasional post op film. I can tell you about the surgery itself since I am there through the whole thing and can watch on the tv screen (laproscope) while the gallbladder is removed.

I am an x-ray tech and I run a c-arm during surgery. The c-arm is a mobile florascopy machine that takes real time images of the body so the doctor can check for problems in the bile ducts. It does the same thing as the machines used in the x-ray department for upper and lower gi's. After removing the gallbladder the doctor will inject contrast media (dye) in to the bile ducts which causes them to show up on x-ray. This is usually done after the actual removal of the (usually healthy looking)gallbladder. The thing that concerns me most about this procedure is that it is routinely done on very young people, early 20's and younger. Some doctors are very rough with the contents of a persons abdomen. Pulling and tugging on your insides like that can't be good, not to mention the cauterizer, it actually burns the tissue that holds the gallbladder to the liver to prepare for it's removal. It is not a proceedure that I want to go through!

> Do you know of any negative side efect of surgery ?

There are negative side effects to all surgeries! I believe in avoiding surgery at all cost. I have seen some real doctor "flub ups" on pt's. Sometimes, though rare, fistulas are formed between organs after surgery or they can be spontaineous for someone who is very ill. One very serious case was a woman with a fistula between her lung and colon. The doctor discovered this situation while the pt was undergoing a lower gi and started coughing up barium. Pretty gross, huh? She had also been complaining of very bad breath. This was a case where the woman had surgery on her colon and in the process of healing itself the body formed a fistula.

I can't say that I have any clinically proven things I can tell you but I do know a young woman who had her gallbladder removed a few years ago. She is in the ER quit often with chest and abdominal pain. I can't say that this is a result of her gallbladder surgery, but I highly suspect it is, considering she is in her early 20's and otherwise very healthy.

> Does it happens that people come again for surgery, because of stones inside bile ducts ?

Well, stones in the bile ducts is a common occurence. In a county community of around 40,000 people our department does about 10 ercp's a week. About half of those have a stone in the bile ducts. Some have had gallbladder removal and some have not. So with or without gallbladder removal stones are still a problem. Why remove the gallbladder if it won't solve the problem! duh!!!

> Do you know what percentage of people develop irritable bowel syndrome after gallbladder surgery ?

I really wouldn't know about this one but the woman I mentioned earlier does have collitis.

> Do you know if there is any link between gallbladder surgery and heart diseases - heart attack ?

I wish I knew, but it would make sense that this could happen considering the contents of gallstones. Gallstones being a sign of bad diet choices.

The truth about healthcare is that most people see a specialist for this surgery and after the gallbladder is removed they usually go back to thier family doctor and are referred to another specialist for diffrent problems, so tracking the connections would be almost impossible.

I hope this info helps.


Subject: possible stone in bile duck
From: andrea < >
Date: Today 12:46 Feb 22 2002

I have been experienc pain which is similar to the discomfort I had when I
had my gallbladder out. My doctor thinks it's a stone from my liver
which is lodged in my bile duck. he ordered a cat scan which is scheduled
for march 1.

what kind of advise can you give me? is there anyway i can get rid of
this with a fast or something?

thank you.

>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:46:28 -0800
>From: Steve Barwick
>To: Agnes
>Hi Agnes,
>I did indeed end up having my GB removed surgically. The GB attacks
>were just coming too fast and too furiously, several times a day. It
>got to the point where absolutely nothing could stop them. I tried
>everything imaginable. But I ended up in the ER for the third time on
>Dec. 10th, screaming in agony. I had not been able to eat anything
>other than a few swallows of soup each day for the past 20 days. And
>even trying to drink a glass of water would cause an attack, so I was
>completely dehydrated. I just couldn't go on like that any longer.
>I had the GB surgery the 13th. But the attacks continued unabated for
>the next seven days because the surgeon had left a stone in the ducts!
>So, I had to have the ERCP procedure on the 21st to have the stone
>removed. What a mess!
>I am still having problems with pain in the right side under the rib
>cage, and of course the doctors are at a loss as to how to explain it
>all. Plus, there is still a lot of digestive upset after eating. (The
>doctors are probably going to test my pancreas next, to make sure it is
>producing enzymes correctly.) Plus, I am having sharp pains just below
>the sternum, which they think may be a hiatal hernia.
>Anyway, it has been a nightmare, and I will write about it more
>extensively to the gallstone support group as soon as I am a bit more
>recovered. Right now I still have overwhelming fatigue, and difficulty
>in thinking. I used to work 10-15 hour days, but now even two hours
>completely wipes me out. My opinion is that the anesthesia from the
>first surgery on the 13th, and the drugs used for the ERCP procedure on
>the 21st, combined to caused some problems within my brain. And there
>may be thyroid problems, now, too, because I am very fatigued and my
>hands are cold all the time. I will tell the gallstone group how
>important it is not to wait as long as I did before doing the
>alternative methods for saving the gallbladder. I sure wish I hadn't
>hesitated for three months. By the time I finally did the flush, my GB
>was just too far gone.
>Anyway, at this point my greatest suspicion is that my liver is
>dysfunctional, so I am reading Dr. Sandar Cabot's material on liver
>cleansing, and starting on her supplement regimen.
>Thanks again for your kindness,
>Steve Barwick


Subject: Re: Re: Re: need help before ERCP
From: Adrienne < >
Date: 22:05 Jan 24 2002

Two weeks after my GB surgery, I did my first liver cleanse. I'm a 44 yr. old female. I was still having "attacks." My surgeon said I needed an ERCP because he thought I still had a stone stuck in the common bile duct. I didn't want to go through another medical procedure, so I did the liver cleanse. I was in severe pain if I ate any fat. The first cleanse brought immediate relief- I followed Dr. Hulda Clark 's cleanse exactly and passed many stones. Two weeks later I did another cleanse and I've been pain free and symptom free ever since. I've done a total of 6 cleanses and am still passing stones. I don't know how to answer your questions about taking your medications, but I do know that the cleanse will flush out any stone in the common bile duct. I would think that an ERCP would be able to diagnose a more severe problem--like one involving the pancreas--one person posted that they had a stone stuck in the pancreas, and needed more surgery.



Subject: need help before ERCP
From: midget < >
Date: 11:05 Jan 24 2002 | REPLY |¤| All Messages |

I am scheduled for an ERCP this coming Tues.29th, but would like some help. I was hospitalized in Dec with gallstone attack, since then still having pain, lots of it. Dr believes one is stuck in common bile duct wants to do ERCP. Can I do this flush while in pain? Do I need to do the parasite flush first? I'm running out of time. Had a miserable time sleeping last night with pain. I don't know what to eat so I don't experience so much pain. Help. Had gallbladder removed back in 94. Please help



Subject: Re: possible stone in bile duck
From: Easygoin < Easygoin >
Date: * 20:54 Feb 22 2002

I'm going through the same thing right now! My gallbladder was removed 5 years ago.

Try the gallbladder flush....everyone else here has....with amazing results! Did the "flush" last Saturday and passed hundreds (you'll believe it when you do it) of stones! Gonna do it again this weekend. You should repeat it every 2 - 3 weeks until you've got them all out.

Let the doctors take care of it, and you could end up with more problems than you've got now! There's a story somewhere on this site (can't remember where I found it) from a woman whose biliary duct was "nicked" during surgery. Very touchy surgery! Once it's damaged, she claims, there's no remedy. She's been to doctors and courtrooms for year.....all to no avail!

Again, you can pay thousands at the hospital and take the risk.....or you can do it yourself at home the safe way for about ten dollars. You'll find 8000 + testamonies here from people who have done it successfully! If you don't get relief after 2 or 3 attempts.....then go to the doctor!

More than a few people here have already "lost" their gallbladder, as have I, and are experiencing reoccurence of the original symptoms that the doctors only TEMPORARILY relieved us of by "maming" our bodies! That's why we're doing the "flush" now.....and getting results! It really SOUNDS harder (more complicated) than it is.....but you've got to go through it the first time to see that!


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