Loquat: It's kinda ironic, innit, that the only ad hominem attacks I've seen in this thread have all come from LITS him/herself, and mainly against Rainy.
Ed: Since Rainy has already apologized for her behavior i don't wish to continue explaining what she did that i objected to... and God and all of Heaven knows that i have already explained it throughout multiple posts for any and all who have honesty, integrity, fair mindedness and eyes to see. I can only say Loquat that your bias and willful blindness here is nothing short of astonishing. I know that your extreme and blinding favoritism is based upon your alignment with and loyalty to institutionalized mainstream religion, primarily as originated in the counterfeit catholic church... as compared to my sincere desire to seek God's truth apart from misplacing so much trust, faith and loyalty in that deeply corrupted and false religious system and its dogma.
There's nothing ironic whatsoever about pointing out when someone including you engages in the deplorable practice of initiating pre-emptive personal attacks rather than interacting with decency and mutual respect and staying focused on the topic, as opposed to manipulatively diverting into these personal attacks and other logical fallacies such as straw man misrepresentations of one's true position, appeal to religious popular opinion and appeal to the authority of institutionalized religion in general.
An exceedingly important distinction here as well is understanding with honesty, fair mindedness and eyes to see which individual(s) pre-empted and initiated the abusive ad hominem personal attacks against the individual who was up until that point being kind, gracious and respectful towards them... and who like Jesus, then gave the rude and disrespectful initiator a taste of their own medicine just as Jesus did with the religious pharisees in correctly referring to them as hypocrites, brood of vipers, whitewashed tombs and sons of the devil.
In this thread, i have never once pre-emptively attacked anybody's character, discernment, sincerity, motivations, prayer life, freedom to watch whatever videos they would like, genuineness of the Holy Spirit within them, etc and it was in every instance someone else who initiated these types of deplorable personal insults and as you are most likely completely oblivious to, this also includes you. You can certainly try to deny it and dishonor yourself further before God and men with another false claim, but anybody with an ounce of honest intention, fair mindedness and who is not blinded by bias can see the documented truth for themselves by simply looking back in the thread.
To borrow your own expression from a previous post and to point out the irony and hypocrisy in your own words, it is abjectly obvious that you are "cherry picking" from this thread and that you have formulated your completely and obviously prejudiced, false and oblivious opinions of what has happened here by dishonorably and deceptively choosing to see only the parts you wanted to see and willfully blinding yourself to the rest. Dishonorably and deceptively creating an extremely false narrative and turning a blind eye to the reality, just as trinitarians do when they read their bibles.
You have formulated your dishonest opinions about what was said within this thread, what personal ad hominem hostilities were pre-emptively spoken and by whom, etc. You have used extreme cherry picking to invent an entirely false scenario and to me this is simply dishonorable, deceitful and i will go so far as to say unholy... and an evil manipulative tactic of the enemy.
I have come to realize that certain religious system people including yourself and including the catholics you so admire from centuries gone by have willfully blinded themselves to the bad behavior of the institutionally religious and have sought only to justify it.
To Rainy's credit she apologized for what she did, but now you are picking up where she left off. You champion the dishonorable and deceptive practice of misrepresenting reality and inventing a false version of it which is also known as gas lighting and which is a deplorable behavior you might want to consider looking up as a way of educating yourself as to what you are doing. It is also the title of an old movie you may wish to watch in youtube in case you are interested in infusing yourself with a full display of your own deplorable behavior. Hopefully you would recognize and acknowledge what you are doing and decide to change it.
As is also the case with others who choose to gas light, your extremely deceitful behavior is certainly not anything the Holy Spirit would ever lead anybody into, but it is definitely behavior a religious spirit and/or jezebel spirit would inspire as has been unrelentingly demonstrated by your counterfeit catholic and/or protestant church system forefathers throughout the centuries and your religious pharisee forefathers before them whom you and these false catholic and protestant religious institutions emulate.
Unless you have no interest in aligning your heart with God, this dishonest, dishonorable, and deplorable behavior is nothing whatsoever for you to be so pleased with yourself about. If it is your desire to be a follower of the enemy and it's deceptive and manipulative ways, then you should definitely give yourself a nice pat on the back.
Loquat: I hafta wonder if LITS appreciates the subtle distinction between calling out 'another gospel' and a personal attack against its adherent? The two are not the same.
Ed: Unfortunately this is just more dishonesty, misrepresentation and manipulation on your part Loquat. Not only do i appreciate the distinction between expressing ones opinion that a certain teaching is "another gospel" as opposed to making a personal attack, but as well, are you completely unaware that i pointed out and numbered 20 examples of personal attacks in one of my responses and that the example you just provided is nowhere to be found on that list?
If you are genuinely a man of God and a man of honor, integrity and truth, or if any part of you is sincere in wanting to embrace these Godly characteristics, why not debate against my actual positions which have been so clearly stated instead of seeking to create a false narrative through the enemy's tactic of misrepresentation? Why not honestly, honorably and without bias represent what has actually been said on both sides? Instead of choosing among one or more of the 20 written examples of pre-emptive personal attacks i had listed, did you have to ignore that entire list and falsely imagine something i had not expressed? It's just more dishonest and unfruitful manipulative communication on your part.
Speaking of "another gospel", you act as if you believe that Jesus said, "in order to be saved you have to believe that i am God"... and/or "in order to be saved you have to believe the counterfeit whore church will one day produce a 100% perfect bible canon and you must believe that every word in that counterfeit system's bible is 100% God's word including the part where my Father supposedly incited humans to rape other humans".
I know you consider these areas of catholic originated dogma to be essential, but if you believe either of these are necessary for salvation, then it is you who is preaching another gospel from the one preached by Lord Jesus Himself. This was never His message. Are you unable to see this? Are you so blinded by Catholic dogma that you are unable to see that you are a follower of that counterfeit religious system rather than being a follower of the Lord Jesus and His own teachings?
Loquat: Again, that's fine. Free will affords LITS that choice. Personally, I'm with the Bible and Athanasius on this one.
Ed: If you say Jesus is God then you are against His own words in the bible where He referred to His Heavenly Father as the one and only true God... and you are against thousands upon thousands of other bible verses where it is very clear that God consistently spoke of Himself and was referred to as one individual person, not two and not three. What do you do with all of these truthful verses if not cherry pick all around them?
Nevertheless as you say, you do have free will to believe whatever you want regardless of how poorly substantiated it is. As a deeply revealing aspect of this, you are free to continue choosing Catholic Dogma over Jesus' own teachings. Going along with Group think mentality and wide road majority religious opinion within the counterfeit whore church system has a way of making a lot of fundamentalist religious people feel overly confident and even arrogant in believing that their religious dogma must be right. It is your free will right to decide to be a follower of Institutionalized religion and its Dogma which is in direct opposition to Jesus and to what He, Himself taught, but why not just admit that this is what you have done?... that you have chosen to be a part of the anti-Christ counterfeit religious system and its Dogma rather than actually being a follower of Lord Jesus Himself?
Loquat: As Athanasius himself once said, 'Jesus, who I know as my Redeemer, cannot be less than God.'
Ed: Although I do appreciate that this part of your message was an honest attempt to support your position without diverting into another personal attack, once again you are favoring the words of a deeply corrupted Catholic bishop from the counterfeit whore church over the words and teachings of Lord Jesus Himself. In so doing, you simply reaffirm that along with other wide road institutionalized religious indoctrinates and prosthelytes, your loyalties are to Catholic religion over the Lord Jesus. You might want to consider why you discard Lord Jesus' own words and instead venerate the directly contradictory words of a corrupted catholic bishop from the counterfeit religious system. Which of these two do you consider to be your Lord?
Loquat: For any Bible-believing Christian, denying Jesus' deity crosses a red line that instantly identifies it as another gospel. The charge is justified on strict Biblical grounds regardless of the person advocating what is basically the old Arian heresy. Modern versions of Arianism, at least as far as the person of Jesus is concerned, include (inter alia) Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians and Unitarians. And yes, they are indeed all cults by any generally accepted definition of the term, whose company LITS apparently prefers.
Ed: Bible believing the way you mean it just means that in addition to the true bible verses, you also believe all of the wicked atrocities ascribed against the Heavenly Father's perfect character in your counterfeit religious system's book including the false accusations against the Heavenly Father as being someone who encouraged and incited slavery and rape. It means that instead of the Living God actually being your God and instead of you actually living your life as led by His Holy Spirit which lives inside of His true followers and which speaks God's infinite, 100% God breathed and living words into the hearts of these true followers, you have repeated the mistake of your pharisee forefathers by making this religious system's severely imperfect bible into your god. I believe the true parts of the bible but not the false... and this is called Holy Spirit discernment, something which you have substituted for the idol worship of a partially true and partially false bible as well as the idol worship of the Catholic originated institutionalized religious system and various areas of counterfeit church system dogma which that false hireling system has propagated and brainwashed multitudes of its deeply deceived religious conformist followers into believing.
All the word heresy represents Loquat is Catholic originated and protestant perpetuated propaganda and it is simply a word to propagandize as horrific and damnable a belief that does not conform to the Dogma formulated by the massive and powerful counterfeit whore church and forced upon everybody, literally with the threat of torture and death to those would would dare to seek God for themselves apart from this religious dogma. It is another example of institutionalized gas lighting and instead of standing against this false system, you have joined forces with them.
An honest and insightful definition of heresy by David Christie Murray of Oxford is as follows: "An opinion held by a minority of men which the majority declares unacceptable and is powerful enough to punish". The only adjustment i would make to this definition is that it need not be a majority opinion as long as those in control and in a position to force their will upon others are powerful enough as well as dominating and demonic enough to be in a position to threaten non-conformists and to enforce their threats, just as the infamously hostile and abusive counterfeit catholic church has such a long established history of doing.
It is in no way surprising that you would align yourself with those religious people in utilizing their propaganda in the same way they had used it against those whom they stretched out on racks and/or burned at the stake. You appear to believe that just because the pagan influenced whore catholic church forced various decisions upon everybody in the 4th century, their decisions were infallible, that settled it, and that you now have a right to do as they had done by leveling disrespect and other forms of abuse against those who won't conform. Of course these are the devils tactics of control and domination and it's interesting and deeply revealing that you have been taken in by this religious deception and its horrifically manipulative tactics of the enemy and that instead of opposing that counterfeit system and its anti-Christ tactics, you have embraced that system and its devilish ways, joining forces with them and emulating their behavior.
Quite frankly and sadly Loquat, this kind of "might is right" wide road attitude and institutionalized religious system group think mentality is the path you have chosen and this is in direct opposition to what it truly is to Live in the Spirit as the Lord Jesus modeled and as He taught. You have aligned your heart, mind and soul with the same type of counterfeit institutionalized religious system control and domination tactics in which the Lord Jesus so strongly opposed.
Onto another of your points, i definitely believe that the institutionalized Jehovah's witness organization is a Cult and that most likely all of the other versions of institutionalized religion you mentioned are cults as well, but not for the reasons you believe. As some additional irony for you to chew on, i also definitely believe that the catholic whore church and its mainstream protestant whore church offspring - a massive and massively corrupt and abusive system which you have sold your soul into and have apparently made into your replacement foundation and rock - is the most prolific and powerful controlling and dominating brainwashing Cult of all time and it is the Cult which invented the anti-biblical and anti-Christ Trinity dogma and its derivatives along with the also false 100% God breathed bible dogma including the part where the Heavenly Father encourages and incites slavery and rape.
It's convenient and indeed ironic and hypocritical that the greatest Cult of all time decides whom it will label as cults (as well as heretics) and of course it is through your own Cult's projected and blame shifted definition in the hopes of diverting the attention away from itself that you derived upon what you refer to as the "generally accepted definition of the term". Once again your trust is in the Catholic originated institutionalized religious system and its propaganda, not whatsoever in the Living God who transforms hearts away from this type of religious pharisaism and lovingly speaks His living words into the hearts of His children.
Yes there are other much smaller cults as well which also control, manipulate, deceive, intimidate, dominate and spiritually abuse as all cults do... and all of them need to be carefully avoided. But there is no Cult in all of History (excepting perhaps the Cult of Islam) that has brainwashed nearly as many billions of people as Catholicism and their mainstream protestant offspring Cult to which you belong. Something all or most of these brainwashing Cults have in common is their dishonest and propagandized false claim to having a 100% God breathed Holy book, so if you are the least bit honest in looking for a true common denominator for all of these Cults, this is it.