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Re: Mockers are the least open and most difficult people to help.
 
vektek Views: 1,317
Published: 8 y
 
This is a reply to # 2,305,830

Re: Mockers are the least open and most difficult people to help.


I believe Tom totally butchered the gospel in that whole message. And this goes back to what I've been saying all along. All these people claim to be miraculously healing people but they can't even give them the true gospel. What is the point of healing people physically (even if this is true) for a better temporary life if you can't even give people the true gospel which leads to eternal life?

You said in another post that you believe Muslims, Mormons, New Agers, etc. could still be miraculously healing people by the power of God despite their teachings. I believe that is a very dangerous thing to believe. Here is the short exchange on that:

"Vek: And don't forget that Muslims, New Agers, all kinds of Cults, etc. claim to have their own miracles all the time too.

mst: i know this will be controversial and i am stating this as my opinion. i believe the way God set things up is that faith for miracles and stepping out in this faith brings miracles and this is true whether people are professing themselves as followers of Lord Jesus or not. See if you can make sense of the following scripture from luke 9: 49 John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us.” 50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you.”"

Notice the very last part of that scripture there you quoted to support your view on that:

"for he who is not against you is for you"

The Muslims, Mormons, New Agers, etc. are against us! They teach a gospel contrary to the true Christian gospel. Muslims specifically want to kill us, so I'd say that for sure means they are against us! lol

But getting back to Tom. He starts off saying that many believe, (because of grace and the gospel not being properly preached), that it is a "do nothing Gospel". Well it might come as a shock to him, but the only Gospel that saves is a "do nothing Gospel". The bible is very clear in saying we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone (unless you want to call faith a work, but most do not want to do this considering that the bible is clear that salvation is by faith alone, not by works).

The Gospel is about what Christ alone has done for our salvation. We take a hold of what he has done in our place by faith. And the Bible even says faith is a gift, and God is the Author and Finisher of it, not us. So it's purely a "do nothing" Gospel because Christ has done it all! It is finished! And once again, we take a hold of this finished work of Christ, by faith.

Now, because of this salvation, we are God's workmanship, created in Jesus Christ for good works, but these good works are the result of salvation and not the cause! It's very important to understand that and get it across to other people or we are not preaching the true gospel!

Refreshed gets so tired of me saying all this, thinking I'm preaching to the few people here, which I am not, but even you show you don't get what the gospel is by saying you don't see anything wrong with the message above by Tom Fisher.

Tom goes on to say that the statement "grace will take care of it all" is a false statement.
But even Paul, who said he worked harder than them all, said it was GRACE at work in him. It's all by grace that we do a single thing as far as "good works" go! And then Tom says, this false message turns people into "do nothing Christians". Well Tom does not understand the POWER of GRACE one iota. If someone is a "do nothing Christian" or if someone uses grace as a license to live however they want, they aren't walking in grace. They are walking in something else, but it's not grace!

Galatians 2:
19For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

What's that passage saying there? It's saying that it was by GRACE and FAITH that Paul was finally able to bear fruit to God. All those years he thought he was doing great stuff for God, he was bearing no fruit, except fruit unto death.

So then Tom starts saying that Jesus didn't teach the law in his three years of ministry, and he quotes Matthew 6:14:

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

This passage is from the Sermon on the Mount. And Jesus was absolutely teaching the law in that sermon. He was teaching "the ultimate Law". Jesus's whole purpose with the Sermon on the Mount was to show the Jews (but also us) just how Holy the law really is, and how unholy they were, so that in hearing what is required to attain righteousness (if done by themselves) they would see it as impossible and be driven to the gospel, the righteousness of Christ, the only way to be saved! Tom is not giving these people he is preaching to the gospel, but he is giving them "the law" that no one will be justified or saved by.

If Tom would just read a little bit before he gets to the passage on forgiveness that he wants to make a requirement in order to be saved, he'll find that Christ says this also:

Matthew 5:48
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Does Tom want to make this a requirement for himself and everyone else also?

Tom tells those people "if you do not forgive others, God will not forgive you!" So he needs to add in there, "if you are not perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect" you will not be forgiven either! Christ says both in the same sermon! Are we going to throw one of them out?

Christ's blood was shed for the remission of sins. So as believers, if we are saved by the blood of Christ, does the blood of Christ cease to be a covering for our sins if in the future we fail to forgive someone? What if someone hurts us very bad and before we have truly forgiven that person, we die. I guess our salvation is gone? Forgiveness is often a process for human beings. Sometimes it takes some time and the grace of God working in us to bring us to the point where we completely forgive.

Later in the New Testament, after the New Covenant is established, do you know what is says about forgiveness? :

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

So in other words, forgive because you HAVE been forgiven, NOT forgive so that you CAN be forgiven!

Huge difference, right! One command was written under the Old Covenant (which was under the law) and yes, it came from Christ himself! The other was written under the New Covenant, and it coincides with the gospel.

It's by the power of the gospel that we can truly walk in forgiveness anyway, not because of a command by the law!

How and why should we forgive? Because we have already been forgiven, our sins have been cast as far as the east is from the west, we have been made white as snow and given the righteousness of Christ, we have an inheritance so wonderful we can't even imagine it (all according to the gospel).

The gospel is beautiful, awesome, and powerful, but Tom Fisher doesn't get it, sadly. But yet he is supposedly healing all these people, and then sending them off with a false gospel.

If I was an unbeliever or even a confused believer, I wouldn't be walking away from that message by Tom Fisher looking to the righteousness of Christ alone to be saved. I'd be scared to death and looking to myself to make sure I was getting it all right. But Jesus didn't give the Sermon on the Mount to frighten people into trying to forgive people, and do everything else right, including trying to be perfect as the Father is perfect, so that they could be forgiven of their sins and saved. No he gave that Sermon so that they would cry out in mercy and know that he alone is the Savior and only his righteousness will do! Their good works (the results of their salvation) would follow from there.

There is more Tom says. I haven't even gotten to the three minute mark in my review of that message. lol But I am stopping here because there is no need to go further. This is not an accurate grace message by Tom, despite what you and him think.

I hope both you and Tom will learn the true gospel message!
That's infinitely more important than temporary physical healing.

And I hope you will not just think this is me being picky as Refreshed often thinks of me on things like this. It's the difference between being saved by "the law" or being saved by "grace through faith". I'm choosing the latter, and I don't think it's a picky matter. :)

Maybe I'll send this message to Tom! :)





 

 
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