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Re: Having doubts about chelation

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joegrane Views: 4,999
Published: 11 years ago
This is a reply to # 1,953,419

Re: Having doubts about chelation

"I am glad that the Cutler Protocol worked for you."

== Thank you.

"However, that doesn't mean that it will work for anyone..."

== "Anyone?" Cutler's protocol is not really that new. He wrote his book, Amalgam Illness, back in 1999. It is based largely on existing protocols that can be found in medical text books. DMSA was FDA approved decades ago (1960's I think). I think DMPS goes back to the 1950s. Cutler's main contribution has been the use of lipoic acid along with DMSA or DMPS.

== Since his protocol has been around for over a decade there is a decent track record, for example:

Dr Amy Holmes, mother of an autistic child who greatly improved on treatments that included frequent dose chelation, did a small study on a hundred or so of her autistic patients.
Roughly 58% of children under 12 (75% < age 6) made "moderate" or greater improvement in less than a year.

Dr Dan Pompa attributes his nice improvement from his mercury problem to Cutler. He now teaches Cutler's protocol at his conferences for other doctors. He discusses this in the early minutes of this interview with Cutler.

There are many dozens of reports of improvement in the Links section of the yahoo Frequent Dose Chelation group. These are three reports from different age groups:
Autistic child--the mother is active in Autism-Mercury group.

Teen who had setback when he used cilantro--active member of FDC group.

40ish? female who had her MS diagnosis reversed by the same doctor who originally made it--long-time FDC group member.

Three parents of formerly autistic children wrote a book about the use of Cutler protocol.

They are regular contributors to the yahoo Autism-Mercury group.

Of course Cutler claims that he greatly improved, including from the tremor that made it difficult for him to dial the phone.

"...or that anyone with a heavy metal problem has to use the Cutler Protocol."

== Very true. I encourage people to read and try to make a careful decision. I try to provide information, including lots of links to more information from a number of sources, Cutler, Boyd Haley, Mark Hyman, Dan Pompa, etc.

"What I really do not appreciate about Cutler and the adherents of his protocol is that they believe they have found the one and only truth and the rest is rubbish."

== True, we can be quite zealous. I ask for some understanding of our foibles. Consider that more than a few of us, including me, had been sick for over a decade with no hope from our doctors. The feeling of getting through the ups and downs of the first year of chelation is profoundly striking. You realize that your gains are really sticking--they are not just some short term improvements or something from the imagination. You now have both some nice improvement and the first real hope for a normal life in a decade or more! A person is bound to be excited by this and maybe a little too excited when talking about it to others.

== For folks like me who have been in several chelation groups for a couple of years, you read many dozens of sad stories from folks who did something or allowed their doctor to do something that caused a major setback. I suppose I'm rare in that two people in my circle of friends had this happen to them!!! I watched it happen to the woman I'm seriously dating when she took ALA inappropriately that came from one of her doctors!

== No half decent person with that experience--twice-- would fail to mention it to others!

"I would have thought that it's self-evident why one person's medicine can be another person's poison. Each person's body and biochemistry is unique and different. Not all people have the same detoxification and regeneration capabilities, or the strength and endurance that the body requires during chelation. Not all detoxifying agents and substances will have the same effect on everyone."

== I certainly agree that no two people are exactly the same. We are, however, all mammals and human beings. We really have more in common with each other biochemically than we have in contrast. Isn't is wise to take into account the things that we have in common?
If we put fire against a human's skin we can bet that bad things are going to happen.
Cutler has written something like, you are a mammal and you are taking a mercury chelator. You are going to excrete mercury.

"Concerning the Cutler Protocol and chelation in general, I think it can be quite dangerous if the body's detoxification and elimination organs and systems (liver, kidneys, the intestine etc) are not able to function properly in order to eliminate the poisons that circulate in the blood during the ALA+DMSA rounds...."

== I agree. I'm confident Cutler would agree, as long as you changed the word "properly" to "adequately." Many members of the FDC group have liver problems and so have to proceed with very low doses and liver support. We are fortunate that ALA sends most mercury (Hg) into the stool whereas, DMSA and DMPS sends most mercury into urine. So if a person has a problem with just one of the elimination routes, we can use a chelator that uses the alternate route.

"...Redistribution is also an issue with both ALA and DMSA (as it is with cilantro, which is why I said that not all things work the same on everyone)."

== I agree and Cutler writes (almost certain that Boyd Haley does as well) that the di-thiol chelators don't hold onto mercury perfectly.
(Note: you can see the dual SH/thiol groups in this image of lipic acid)

== So when a molecule of chelator drops some Hg that it mobilized--kicked up, there is a chance that the Hg will end up in a more vulnerable part of the body than from which it came.

==Cutler's protocol is designed to address this. This is the reason for the frequent dosing based on the half life of the chelator. By keeping blood levels of chelator rather stable, you increase the odds that the mobilized Hg will be picked up and safely chelated by a molecule of chelator in the next dose.

== When using well known chelators such as DMSA, DMPS and ALA, the half-life is known. We know how often we need to take it in order to keep blood levels reasonably stable. However, the cheltor that is in cilantro is not as well known. Does anyone know what the half-life of that chelator is? Are all varieties of cilantro equally potent? How can one safely use it?

"Furthermore, DMSA can be toxic. It has been found to damage the kidneys and very possibly the liver, and to the best of my knowledge this has been backed up by scientific studies."

== I think Cutler would agree that it *can* be dangerous if used improperly. People can drown on water, yet we need it for life. Everything is deadly if taken at some sufficiently excessive level or in some unsafe manner.

== The better question is, do we know how to use it safely and effectively? Fortunately DMSA has been around for many decades. Have there been more deaths from it than from aspirin and other OTC pain killers? Actually I'm not aware of any deaths from DMSA.

"The fact that it is FDA approved, doesn't really mean much. Many dangerous poisons were and still are approved by the medical establishment, but that doesn't make them a bit safer."

== Not even "a bit safer?" So you are okay with buying something off the street in Tijuana, Mexico? Obviously there is no way to know the long term effects when they are evaluating a new medicine, but DMSA, DMPS and ALA are not new. They've been in use for many decades. Cutler's protocol has been in use for over a decade.

"Finally, I do believe that there have been negative reports on the Cutler Protocol."

== Sure, of course it depends on what you mean by "negative reports." Most people feel a little worse while on a round of chelation, usually a three day round. They will usually have more fatigue and brain fog. Some don't sleep as well. However, when a person is taking modest doses, the sfx end about a half day after the end of the round. I just stop my round before going to bed on Sunday night. By the next morning I'm not in bad shape for work.

== Also folks need to get some basic supplements and provide support for their symptoms, especially endocrine symptoms. This is difficult because few new members understand what the adrenals are and fewer understand how much Hg affects adrenal and related systems. Often they are overly aggressive with doses and skimpy with supplement support. They'll become exhausted and need to take some time off for adrenal and thyroid testing and maybe some medicine. Gradually they bounce back.

== When I was beginning to look into chelation, I followed the cases of a half dozen new members of the chelation groups. While one or two might be playing games or too mentally ill to be accurate, you are going to get a feel for how folks are doing. Some people are so dreadfully sick. It seems to be hard for someone in that state to make up all of the things they post to the group on almost a daily basis.

== One of the most compelling cases I followed was that of the teen BillyMadison--I included a link above to his 1 yr update. Honestly when he came into the group I thought that he was mentally too sick to manage his recovery. I thought he was too far gone and would never get better from his very long list of symptoms. His early posts were erratic and mood unstable. He couldn't tolerate almost any supplements and was on very low doses of chelators. After a year, we could see that he actually had fairly good writing skills--better than me. He also reported some nice gains but he could have been making that up. I found the gradual improvements in his writing and the mood of his posts to be quite compelling. He clearly went from a mentally ill person to an obviously intelligent teen.

== While this is not scientific proof, it is yet another indicator of what is working for some people, and with 2000 posts per month from thousands of members, you have a decent number of people on which to base your decision.

"Therefore, the only wise thing to do is to proceed with extreme caution and always under medical supervision."

== I agree entirely. I visited my doctor every few months and got followup tests. Kicking up deadly heavy metals is no small matter. Neither is allowing them to continue to wreck your life!

== I chose Cutler's protocol because it seemed to be the safest, effective method to chelate lead, cadmium and mercury, the toxins that were most likely in play in my case. Two years later my health is back in the normal range for my age while not on any medications.

== Choose wisely.

== Best regards,

== Joe

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