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Re: I'm stuck in a die off pattern that isn't letting up.
unyquity Views: 2,519
Published: 10 years ago
This is a reply to # 1,803,609

Re: I'm stuck in a die off pattern that isn't letting up.

Hey guys, Howdy ray!  I'm sorry you're having such a rough go of it - let's see what we can figure out :)

(this post is a bit scattered, as I changed gears in the first 1/3 - sorry about that, it comes together after the middle).

I've been freaking miserable the past week or more. I've stopped all of the 'anti herbs' and am eating green smoothies, vegetables, fruits, some rice, some meat (back home; need to compromise).  Diet sounds good- I understand the 'need to compromise' with your family/parents (and I know you're doing your best to compromise as little as possible :)  So I see (below) charcoal & CE's - both are good, as you know .  But I don't see any calming herbs of any kind or anything to support your adrenals, mood and/or anxiety?  EFT? (I hope :)     (new posts from you, added below - added IF#1/#2 and still taking Adrenal Tincture - but that must be very small doses if you have any left).

Every day I feel horrible.. worse if I eat any fat from nuts or anything with fat in it really....Gerson's diet included only 1-3 T of flax seed oil daily - no other oils.  If 'fat' is making you feel worse, then it should be okay to 'back off' for a timeBut healthy fats shouldn't be making you feel badly.  Shaky, irritable, sensitive to noise, muscles twitching and feet and hands go cold whenever I eat or drink anything. These things are SO "adrenal" & "stress/anxiety" in nature...and I recall you getting strong relief before from the Adrenal Tincture before.  Did that stop working?  Are you taking enough for it to have a benefit?  (remember - 1/8 of an aspirin isn't going to make much/any difference - dosage size really counts, especially with herbs).  I'm not saying "it's all in your head" (far from it!) - but all these physical things are connected and cause emotional tension...and then the emotions/stress trigger physical tension, causing more emotional tension....

Are you taking 1-3 T of Ashwagandha every day?  Superfood (ultra high in B vitamins which are very good for stress)?  Yes, "die off" can create and/or make all those symptoms worse (just having parasites/candida can make it worse), but when all systems are adequately supported, it's always "less symptoms".

Change in EMF's?  Wifi/cellphones are insidious for adrenal/anxiety type issues, because the electropollution triggers adrenaline response (fight/flight).

My kidneys have been aching on and off the past few many kidney cleanses have you done? doing castor oil packs on kidneys? how often?

..every movement I have I expel more dead candida and flukes. That's actually great, right? - you don't want them in you rotting.  I know you've got to be exhausted with all this, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel after all these years of chemical poisons (altering mind & body)...and it's much closer than you feel it is.  Why am I continually going through these horrid die offs? Well, from what I can tell, it's because you're either not doing enough of what you have and know to do to support and eliminate the die-off reactions, or we need to add more that you don't know/have.  The first thing on the list to consider adding (imo) is definitely St. John's Wort (very good for anxiety, as well as stabilizing mood).

I am taking charcoal when this comes on and it helps, but temporarily. How much charcoal daily is 'taking charcoal'?

I am afraid of taking anything antifungal anymore at this point, so no IF1... just high fiber foods, trampoline, and started doing CE again.  It appears from what you're saying that your body is purging a lot of carcasses left in there that were killed previously.  The "end" will come when you've killed them all and got them all out...and you need to be consistently aggressive with the flukes for 6 weeks solid. 

Wait-whoa, put all that "on hold", I just re-read your posts below (and just clicked on your User ID to see if you'd made any other posts in other forums).  You have candida (known) and I'm seeing things like "almost total fruitarian diet".  And having all kinds of reactions after eating fruit smoothies - for starters, let's take this segment from someone elses post to you and explain a substantial part of this:

>>>  In sum, I don't know how or why eating sugar makes those of us with candida feel good at first but then all groggy and terrible later. However, I do know that it's not die off, and I also know that it can't be good.<<<

I know the answer - and so do you if you think about it.  What happens when we put yeast together with liquid & sugar in a warm place?  It ferments & makes alcohol.  The blood alcohol level of folks with candida is consistently higher than normal (one of the reasons that candida is very hard on the liver) and why people have 'brain fog' and all kinds of (seemingly) unexplainable 'die-off' and other reactions.

From your post on another forum: -had a green smoothie with strawberries and five bananas
~Felt GREAT initially, more energy, clear minded, good mood, then after about 2 hours felt more spaced out and screwed up than ever. Felt like I was going to pass out and die. Laughed for no reason and then became so fatigued.

You gave your body a lot of natural sugar, it fermented into alcohol after a couple of hours, and you report symptoms of a raised blood alcohol level.

From a previous post:

>>>The reason candida affects memory and creates brain fog is because it puts out over 79 different types of toxins (chemicals) most of which are alcohol. Therefore having candida is like having an alcoholic hangover very day, which greatly affects brain function, concentration and coordination. In The Yeast Syndrome book Dr. Trowbridge writes about a man who never drank alcohol of any kind, yet he acted just like he was drunk, i.e. falling down, slurring his words, unsteady on his feet (reeling), and he reeked of whiskey. His blood-alcohol level was that of a full-blown drunk. He was even arrested for drunken driving. What this man had was candida overgrowth. <<< Of course, "full blown drunk" would be a VERY extreme situation.

Did you know that if a hard-core alcoholic is hospitalized, to prevent the various/harsh withdrawal reactions when unable to drink in the hospital, they give benzos?  And if someone that's taking or withdrawing from benzos drinks alcohol, after it wears off, they need more benzos (because their anxiety is increased substantially).  The most insidious addiction combo is alcohol & benzos...because they work almost exactly the same way on the GABA receptors.  So getting withdrawing off one, makes people crave the other desperately, but taking 'the other' makes the withdrawals worse from the one they're withdrawing from.  See the connection?  Some of this is not "die off", it's because when you kill the candida they aren't producing alcohol (and the alcohol forces the calming GABA receptors into calming you).  But just like with benzos, when the GABA receptors have been 'chemically forced' to work harder than is natural for them, when they don't have the alcohol/benzos, they're "downregulated" and every little sound or stressor isn't 'calmed' by the GABA receptors, so it hits your (already stressed) adrenals at 'full force' - basically ensuring a flight/fight adrenaline response.

Is all the bile flow from fat killing all of this excess candida? I know it's pushing flukes out, and I have started doing CE again to get this all out....My intestines and colon are gurgling when I eat and there's lots of trapped gas in there that keeps coming out....WTH is going on? I need to get a job now and I am non functional a lot of the day because of this....Remembering back, I had a period or two like this when I stopped garlic, cayenne, ACV and it took like a week to feel less long as you were killing them at a steady pace, taking the IF#1/IF#2 to sop up the toxins and doing CE's/enemas to ensure their release, you were functioning pretty good (I recall you juicing celery/carrots, eating avocodos, but I don't recall lots of fruit). The last anti fungals I took where last weekend with the raw oat groats, kidney cleanse herbs, etc. etc....I need guidance here. Like bad.


Yea well I feel less horrible this morning.. but I got out more candida attached to my bm and I feel shaky, pounding heartbeat, nauseas, jittery, all the classic die off symptoms.  Also classic withdrawal symptoms when the GABA receptors have been stressed & downregulated.  I don't understand why the candida keeps dying off and causing these problems... I'm not taking anything to kill it. :( 


Ok, I'm going to be honest as I can be here. Just did a coffee enema and feel better physically, but now very depressed....The toxins that must have gotten out during that are making me feel this way I presume....Now, last night I woke up several times around liver maintainence time feeling bad... liver dumping something would be my guess. Candida = alcohol = very hard on liver = bile to cleanse & heal itself.  I'm at the point where I feel like anytime I even eat a little bit of fat, it is flushing my liver out and causing problems if it doesn't get out right away? Play all that new info into the equation and see what you come up with.  Is the bile flow killing off all of this candida to the point where it is making me feel miserable?  It's possible healthy bile has a negative effect on candida, but that theory doesn't hold up strongly to logic.  If bile killed candida effectively (and our liver makes 1 - 1 1/2 quarts of bile daily), then just liver-flushing would cure most anybody of candida overgrowth...but it doesn't.  Nor does strong bile flow prevent antiobiotics from instigating candida overgrowths by killing off the beneficial flora.

These problems really started when I incorporated modest amounts of fat (20-30g) back into my diet. Being home right now I can't keep up the total frutarian diet I was doing which was almost all fruit some nuts and seeds and oat groats. Unfortunately, meat and some other things are a part of it now. Basically, with this level of candida overgrowth & symptoms, fruit should be basically 'off the menu' for quite awhile.  "Keeping up a totally fruitarian diet" causes extreme candida/yeast/alcohol reactions.  Candida are saprophytes (saprophytes get their food from 'decaying organic matter') - they're the clean-up crew of the intestines.  Once the healthy gut flora are killed off (by antiobiotics & all kinds of various drugs/chemicals), then they proliferate greatly because our colons/intestines are full of 'decaying organic matter' (the perfect feeding & breeding grounds).  It's natural they keep on proliferating, because there's too much for them to clean up.  Yeast cannot live on sugar alone...but sugar causes the fermentation reaction, which causes all KINDS of symptoms and compromise (particularly to the liver & immune system).  More on candida/saprophytes from this post (be sure to read the info in the link below)

You will want to read this information:

--Why do we need to do a deep colon cleanse (for at least 30 days) in order to start to beat Candida?

Because Candida yeast are saprophytes.  What is a saprophyte?  A saprophyte is: "An organism, especially a fungus or bacterium, that grows on and derives its nourishment from dead or decaying organic matter."

Attention EVERYONE...Candida yeast grow on and get their nourishment from...?...dead & decaying organic matter.  Does anyone see the word "sugar" in that definition? NO.  That's because Candida yeast are not fully nourished by sugar. 

--But why do I have symptoms when I eat sugar, or fruits & foods containing sugar?  Because, anytime we mix yeast & water with sugar and put it in a warm place, we get fermentation.  And whenever yeast ferments, they create carbon dioxide & alcohol (those are poisons to us).   The symptoms we experience when eating high-sugar foods when we have Candida are because of fermentation...NOT necessarily the Candida growing and multiplying (remember, Candida get their nourishment from dead & decaying organic matter).

Think about it?  If we put yeast & warm water in a bowl with sugar, the yeast will eat all the sugar very quickly...and produce lots of gas  (carbon dioxide) and lots of alcohol - and then the yeast DIE.  Why? Because there's no nourishment for the yeast to keep on living once the sugar is fermented and gone.  But if the Candida yeast are in our intestinal tract, and our intestinal tract and colon is layered with "dead & decaying organic matter" (and it is), then the Candida yeast have all the nourishment they need to live & grow stronger (and the perfect place to multiply)...whether we give them sugar, or not.   Of course, if we give them sugar, the fermentation happens (they make carbon dioxide & alcohol, which poisons us)...but the sugar wouldn't make more Candida (or make them any stronger) unless they were getting all the nourishment they need from the dead & decaying, rotting 'organic matter' in our intestines and colon.

So, the very first thing everybody must do to get rid of Candida, is to get rid of the "dead & decaying organic matter"...because that's where they get their food & nourishment, and that is where they multiply.

We can read tens of thousands of reports from people on CureZone (and the internet) of people that try to 'starve Candida' by not eating sugar, and taking all different things to kill them.  But the minute they eat sugar again? Candida yeast fermentation happens again.  WHY? Because to get rid of Candida, you have to take away the place they grow & multiply, and you have to take aways their nourishment!  And that's not "sugar", that's "dead & decaying organic matter".

BUT, while we're starving them and taking away their home (by cleaning out the 'dead & decaying organic matter from our intestines & colon), we can poison THEM.  What is the strongest poison to Candida?  Raw Garlic!  And raw garlic also helps our healthy gut flora to recolonize!

What else kills Candida and benefits our stomach and digestion?  Apple Cider Vinegar!

What else kills Candida, increases circulation, strengthens peristalsis and helps heal our body? Cayenne!

I really don't know what is going on at this point, and I apologize for the panicked messages. It's just that, I don't know what to do right now and it's getting down to crunch time. No problem!  Knowledge is the name of the game - we can handle anything if we know what it is - but if we don't know, we can't.


Also, last weekend I had stopped taking the IF's as I had been on them for almost 2 months and was trying to get back into the normal swing of things.

I have started taking 1 IF1 and 5 IF2 + 1 tsp charcoal again today, as maybe all of this candida that I keep getting out is candida that I killed off that is just sitting in my bowels reabsorbing? When I eat the guts start rumbling and I get the gas... maybe it just needs to all come out?

I don't know, I'm thrown for a loop. Either way, I know it doesn't help that my adrenals even with the tincture aren't 100%, but still.. that doesn't explain the constant stream of die off reactions I've had.

Okay, first let's correct some misinformation you've been given by some 'candida experts' that didn't even know enough to explain to you about the 'alcohol issue'.  Healthy antifungal foods & liquids (cayenne, garlic, acv) do NOT destroy your healthy gut flora.  If they did, how would any of Dr. Schulze/Christopher's patients have been healed so completely?


THE most calming/soothing herb when the GABA receptors are downregulated is Kava - it's even been double-blind tested to be as effective as benzos (if a person isn't in benzo withdrawal). So, Kava Tincture - 2-6 droppersful as often as needed.

Ashwagandha root powder - 1-3T daily

Adrenal Tincture - 2-4 droppersful several times daily

Milk Thistle seed powder - 2-3T daily to help support your poor liver


CE daily

ACV Bomb - 1-3 daily

Bee Pollen for good protein & B5 for the adrenals (plus a vast array of other awesome nutrition/energy)

Some type of natural Vitamin C to support the adrenals (Amla berry powder SuperOrganicFoods : Organic Amla Powder --they're dead-wrong about it not containing high amounts of C-- ; OR Acerola cherry powder -Pacific Botanicals)

Diet - low fruit/sugar (only low sugar fruit like tart green apples); veggie juices (can have some carrot juice, but mixed with veggie and diluted a bit) if taking the IF#1 and ACV Bomb; grains as tolerated; plenty of Superfood and lots of veggies of all kinds.  Healthy fats as tolerated (be sure to get a couple of tablespoons daily); plenty of fermented foods & kefirs.


You're not going nuts; your body isn't broken and/or malfunctioning; what you're experiencing is understandable and 'has an end' as long as you're willing to be consistent; it has an end much sooner if you're willing/able to get the support your stressed out GABA's & adrenals need while going through the routine/process.  EFT for the emotional aspect (and particularly the stressful/difficulty with parents).

YOU? are GOLD!  And by the time you're on the other side, you'll be 24ct solid gold!  Do your best to think of this like getting an MBA or training for the Olympics - when it's done, there'll be nothing on earth that can ever stop you from being exactly who & what you want to be.  A sucky way to win a victory?  Most certainly.  But a victory that means there'll never be anything 'so tough' that you won't be able to strangle & wrangle it into submission.







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