to fonthill's second reply/post (learning re: legalities & "uny limits")
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to fonthill's second reply/post (learning re: legalities & "uny limits")
from here: http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1597635#i (which was a continuation of this thread: http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1596678 )
To be honest I think you have been quite unfair.
I'm not surprised you think I've been unfair. It's very typical for someone whose errors & rudeness have been pointed out to blame or criticize the person that pointed it out, rather than addressing the actual issue that caused the person to address it in the first place. In my opinion, that type of typical response is immature & indicative of the unhealthy aspects of someone's pride & ego...but for whatever reason/s one discerns, it's sadly & certainly typical.
If you can remember my initial post it was an honest question..."I wonder if juicing is good etc etc" That's all it was.
Your original post-premise was:
Carrot juice etc=sugar
Beetroot juice would be worse.
So I wonder if all this juicing is really good for someone with an ailing liver? There seems to be plenty of evidence suggesting that juicing isn’t advised for anyone with a bad liver.
Especially someone with a fatty liver. Sugar and alcohol would be the first two things to remove.
Especially someone with a fatty liver. Sugar and alcohol would be the first two things to remove.
With a link to a site that has the byline below for your "evidence":
"EVEN WITH NO SUGAR ADDED, FRUIT JUICE HAS THE SAME AMOUNT OF SUGAR AS SODA. WHY? BECAUSE FRUIT IS FULL OF SUGAR! "
[hosted by a man that:graduated from the University of Florida in 1986 with degrees in chemistry and journalism. ...that obviously has no experience in truly natural healing (or apparently any other type of healing), or he'd know that the sugars and HFCS in soda cannot possibly be compared to the natural sugars found in whole, fresh juices with their natural co-factors.]
So, I responded to your 'honest question' here: http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1596678#i
First I got the brainless response from Telluride whitewashing ND's in general
Telluride did not respond in a brainless manner!! He related his own personal experience. I addressed this previously in a response to your condescending rudeness to him here: http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1597229#i
...and fully explained in a manner than even a grade-schooler could understand.
But you obviously didn't read it, didn't respect it (or respect me and the reasons I don't want people being rude & disrespectful on my forum), or didn't "believe in" my response. So here's one you can understand fully:
Your comments to Telluride were completely out of line (disrespectful personal insults & name calling that had NOTHING to do with the subject matter), and this last comment (saying Telluride responded 'brainlessly,' after I asked you to stop) is TOTALLY inexcusable. I will not allow people to talk to me that way, and I most CERTAINLY will not allow you to talk to forum members that way.
>>>First I got the brainless response from Telluride<<<
And no, the first response you received was from ME. It was a very complete response (from the viewpoint of natural health & healing) addressing a variety of issues related to your premise-question.
and then was told off by you, repeatedly.
There would have been no reason for me to say a thing, if YOU hadn't been rude & disrespectful in your posts.
I didn't "tell you off" (no one on this forum has any idea what me "telling someone off" looks like, lol). What did happen was that I explained (initially semi-humorously) and then quite clearly how what you'd said & posted was contrary to the tenets of my forum, and I explained why. Once again:
It's distracting, negative, dramatic, senseless and totally uncalled for between reasonable adults. And it causes others to be concerned about inviting intelligent people to this forum (who are seeking the truth of natural healing), because it makes it difficult for them to get past the immaturity and mudslinging. It's particularly damaging in the "energy healing sense" of the forum, and I will NOT tolerate it. If it happens again, I will pull "censorship" and delete the posts asap.
By the way, the reason I didn't delete this post (or the other one I'm currently responding to), is that there are many things that others can learn from reading them.
By the way telling someone to grow up isn't particularly rude.
Lol, that's some mighty strong stuff you must be smokin'. An adult telling another adult to "grow up" is clearly judging the other person to be immature. Telling someone what you think is wrong with them (without them asking you) is always rude.
But I do see a lack of wisdom and understanding all around.
We need to be open, not to just your philosophy but to everything.(there is more in heaven and earth that is dreamed of in your philosophy)
First of all, there are nearly 1,000 other forums on CZ where you/anyone can go to discuss & debate whatever, whomever and however you would like.
Secondly (and again), it is not "my" philosophy or premise to only utilize and ingest substances for healing the natural body in the wholesome forms in which they are found in nature, while understanding that every system in the body is dependent upon the others. (By the way, Dr. Christopher/Schulze utilized two substances that might be considered unnatural, juices & tinctures - Gerson used only a handful of "isolated substances", but we choose to gain our 'substances' in a wholesome form). The earliest person to espouse & document this type of healing methodology (that I can think of off the top of my head) was Hippocrates.
Fonthill, this is a private support forum; it is dedicated to teaching, learning and supporting truly natural health and healing (based on the works & protocols of Dr. Christopher, Dr. Schulze and Dr. Gerson (partially), et al). Certainly, asking questions so one can understand their protocols and how they worked to heal, is always welcome (hence, the reason why I answered your original post). But continuing on with childish name calling, and not even addressing the points that were offered in reply, is just plain rude & disruptive.
Yes you think your (Schulze) way is perfect
So now you know what I think, too? :::grinning eyeroll and shaking head:::
You are truly incorrect, fonthill.
I do not think that everything Dr. Schulze did or said was "perfect". For example, he advises to put his Liver/GB tincture in with the tea (which dilutes the 'bitter principles' in the tincture, making it less effective). He suggests drinking 8oz of olive oil over 4 hours for his Liver Flush protocol, and although he had success with that (and so have others on the forum), I believe it's more effective if the oil is ingested all at once (as we now have evidence that differs). Dr. Christopher's liver protocols are not aggressive enough for today's level of liver compromise (in my opinion), and I don't recommend the isolated/unnatural substances that Gerson utilized. I have added EFT and will soon be adding natural microbiota restoration. And I am quite aware that what writings & documentation we have are limited, and that we are facing far greater challenges in a more toxic world than they did. AND that there has been newer & more accurate information about many of the herbs they used (as well as newly discovered herbs).
Once again (because you either didn't read what I previously posted, or you didn't believe what I said...which means you think I lied), I will clarify for you once again - this forum is FAR MORE than just Dr. Schulzes "way".
but there are plenty of people, especially on curezone, who think the same about their protocols
Exactly. This forum is one of many.
and a lot of them are on curezone to sell stuff, including you.
I'm not sure what (if anything) you're insinuating, but if it's the worst of what I'm thinking - well, whatever you're insinuating, the one thing that is true, is that of all people, I certainly don't owe you an explanation.
You make Schulze sound like he cured everyone!
:::sigh::: AGAIN, this forum/protocol AND my posts & beliefs are NOT based solely upon Schulze. And yes, I do believe there is "no such thing as an incurable illness, but there are incurable people, and those that 'time has come'." , and that this protocol is extremely effective. I am quite aware that Schulze/Christopher/Gerson didn't cure everybody. (None of them ever claimed 100% success). If you had studied any of these healers before attacking me/them, you would know that. Many people would not utilize their protocols fully, and many of them had organs carved out and had their natural healing schematics destroyed or negatively impacted by chemo, radiation and vast amounts of chemicals/pharmaceuticals.
Which of course he didn't and how do you know he cured anyone? Because he has told everyone he did? Or have you met the 'thousands' that he has cured?
You are making very serious false assumptions and accusations. The reason I know and believe this methodology works is because I have seen it work with everyone I have EVER assisted. Those for whom it has not worked, they willingly admit they didn't do the full protocol, changed the protocol or chose to do something different.
No you haven't so your belief is based on what? His words.
This accusation: that I am so "closed", uneducated and ridiculously naive that I would believe the words of just one person based on 'what they say' is likely the most condescending insult I've encountered. I can't imagine how you can insult me like this and expect me to respond respectfully.
Fine they may true. Maybe not. I don't know I've never met anyone that has been cured of a serious disease by him.
So, either you're saying you actually KNOW people that have utilized the combined works of Schulze/Gerson/Christopher that have not been cured, or that you never met anybody that actually utilized the protocol. Either way, it's obvious your intent is not to 'learn or support' but to argue, accuse rudely and disrupt. I would have hit the 'ban button' long ago, but I never ban anyone without giving them a full explanation and a fair warning (see the closing paragraph).
I have assisted many people to cure themselves by these methodologies & protocols (including myself and my husband). A poster on this forum ('Wings) has MD, and in less than 2 months reduced it substantially.
Anyway that is not the point.
Anyway that is not the point.
Smirk, really? Then why did you write & post it all? And after being respectful & courteous enough to read & respond to all of your "not the point" (a courtesy you admit you don't extend to me), and after wasting my time accusing me of things I've ALREADY told you are not true (which some people would interpret as being called a liar), you say what you wrote is not your point. Pardon me while I roll my eyes...and turn on the 'blunt truth' button. Yeah, while I'm at it, I'll hit the sarcasm button, too.
I think you have a certain amount of knowledge
Thank you very kindly. But after your rudeness & disrespectful posting, what you "think" of my knowledge level doesn't concern me at all.
and that was why I included your forum on my post question.
Normally, I'd reply by thanking you for your acknowledgment of the research & recognition of the knowledge I've gained over the years.
But after your rude insults and personal attacks, I'll respond thusly:
"Oooh boy, fonthill thinks I have enough knowledge to include my forum for his question! I've been selected as someone to be "blessed" by his "questions that aren't" and his rude insults. Lucky me.
Unlike some people on curezone I am open to learning.
Everyone should be open to learning; sadly, throughout your posts on this forum, there's virtually no evidence that you are willing or interested in learning anything :(
When I post on this forum, it's as a teacher. I learn substantial amounts every day...both from posters and from the research it requires to answer questions. When we stop learning (and loving), we die. Your (seemingly) veiled accusation that I'm not open to learning is no concern of mine.
Who knows maybe there are a couple of things that I do know.
Well, you've certainly proved you know how to be rude & disrespectful. And we know you "believe in" NDs. And I'm sure you have a wealth of knowledge - no one lives as long as you have without having gained knowledge.
I do know that there are a lot of good ND's in the world,
I do know that there are a lot of good ND's in the world,
And I know there are lot of horrible ones. And someday, I will make a post showing the example of what can happen when consulting and trusting various NDs. I will be sure to bring it to your attention when I do.
why they are allowed to practice and Schulze isn't is a good question.
It is a good question, and one that you could easily answer yourself if you would have bothered to read the information in the links (The Medical Racket) that both Willowley and I posted.
For those that don't understand why Dr. Schulze & Dr. Christopher (and Dr. Gerson, MD) were forced out of practice, Gerson forced out of the US (and likely why he died mysteriously of arsenic poising), here is why (a very small 'nutshell version'):
First of all, it wasn't 2010 - if you weren't a licensed MD (or chiropractor, acupuncturist or osteopath), up through around 1987 and you were treating people for money (or even if you weren't charging), you were "practicing medicine without a license". (The first naturopathic college to be accredited was Bastyr in 1987 http://www.heartlandnaturopathic.com/history.htm ). Dr. Schulze had already been practicing for quite a long time by then and Dr. Christopher was dead (after his last arrest he was totally prohibited from ever practicing --he'd have been imprisoned for the rest of his life-- and warned never to use the word 'cancer' in any of his teaching lectures). There's also various licensure for 'certified nutritionalists' and similar practitioners, but ANYone that dared to actually heal people or step one little toe outside the letter of the law, generally found themselves in handcuffs. Again, if you would have read through this link that's been offered to you, you would have had a better understanding (and know how many alternative/natural healers have had their lives & careers destroyed - the only one I know of that died a truly natural death is Dr. Christopher): The Medical Racket
Secondly, even MDs are totally limited to the protocols they can utilize (and the laws change frequently, and who is prosecuted is incredibly biased & selective...and that applies to any & every one the authorities choose to prosecute for whatever "reason du jour'" they come up with). AMA licensed MDs (and MDs that are also NDs) must refrain totally from using any substance or protocol that is not "AMA approved" (of course, they can do anything they want, but if one tiny thing goes awry and a patient reports it to a hospital or another practitioner, they generally lose their license and have heavy fines - including possible jail time...and that's for the first offense). Many MDs that did their research chose to utilize Laetrile to save people lives, were fined hundreds of thousands of dollars, lost their license and were jailed.
There are plenty of famous ND's practising (practicing) in the open. E.g Dr Jan De Vries, one that I know personally, he met with Dr Alfred Vogel in the 60's and is still practicing alternative medicine today. He cured my sister of breast cancer.
It's wonderful that your sister was cured of breast cancer.
http://www.jandevrieshealth.co.uk/history.asp Yes, but I see their practice was in Holland, Switzerland and now the clinics are in the UK. So, I guess one of two things must be true when 'making the point you thought you were making' - either you're not savvy enough to realize that laws for practicing medicine are different in the US than Europe, or you were thinking you are smooth enough (or I/we are dumb enough) to slide one right on past us. dude :::shaking head in wonderment:::
Fonthill - throughout all your posts and "questions", you have failed to give any valid evidence supporting your premises. You have failed/neglected to consider any of the information I offered you in response before replying with more 'discussion' of your original information. Your replies have been filled with rude, disrespectful accusations and name calling. Before you made this post, I specifically explained to you why I will not tolerate this kind of disruptively negative discourse, and you chose to disrespect me (as well as make more false negative accusations and insults). I'm sure you understand why the following is now true (whether you "care" about it or not):
If you reply in any way "justifying" or attempting to explain your past actions; if you attack or choose to "debate" the protocols upon which this forum is based; if you post anything that can't be clearly discerned as a genuine/sincere question about the protocols or methodologies, I will hit the 'ban button' immediately (likely after deleting or censoring your post/reply).
Most forum moderators/owners would demand an apology for past personal insults & disrespect before they would unban someone (I say "unbanned", as you would have been banned simply due to your name calling of telluride under CZ TOS). But I understand that many people seeking healing are 'mentally compromised' and not aware of the wrongness of their words. And it may be possible that somewhere in all of this, you are somehow seeking healing information for yourself. Hence, if you are seeking healing information, you can post questions (if you want to) without apologizing to me, telluride and the rest of the forum for your rudeness. But if it happens again (no matter how slightly), the privilege of posting here is over.
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