"Please provide a link or something so I know what you are talking about. Are you of a certain faith ( belief ) Islam or some other or none other?"
I'm not the poster of that statement, but I certainly don't believe in a literal interpretation of the bible. In fact, nobody does and anyone who says they do is a liar. If folks did believe in a literal interpretation, then all the literal interpreters would believe it says the very same thing, and they don't. Not by a long shot.
This is but one of the many books on the multiplicity of errors of the King James bible, which has also been carried to most of the others as well: "The Hidden King James Bible: What the Translators Didn't Want You to Know".
For example: God is not mentioned anywhere in the book of Genesis. God didn't create the heavens and the earth, the Elohim did. Seven male and seven female entities. Genesis 1:26-27 reads:
In this passage "god" is obviously plural and obviously not a man, but both male(s) and females(s). The "God" used here is, Elohim. (A secondary problem here is that a few passages later, Adam and Eve were create. This strongly suggest that there were two creations of man. That Adam was not the first man.)
There are outright added words in the translation from Greek which change the original meaning. Take John 17:23:
John 17:23: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
The actual Greek word representations for this scripture (Jesus spoke Aramaic) followed by the English literal translations are:
Teleio teleio heis cosmos ginosko apostello agapao agapao
Made perfect one. World know sent love love.
How did they get from that Greek (again Jesus spoke those words in Aramaic) to the words that are written in John 17:23?
These are but two examples of problems with the bible, and there are dozens, even hundreds more.
If you for a minute believe that the KJV of the bible and all other "modern" English translations haven't been modified and changed to meet the translators belief systems, then just keep on believing what you do. Recognize again, that Jesus taught in Aramaic, and not Greek.
To take your faith based on a book which wasn't recorded by eyewitnesses, but by second-hand (hearsay) accounts decades after the death of Jesus, is rather stretching it. It's much more satisfying to talk and communicate (two-way), with both the Supreme Being and with Jesus and get your information first hand, rather than rely solely on the bible.
"Read Link Below for whether God is plural or singular:"
Your link is pure baloney. They don't understand the original Hebrew belief system. (The Hierarchy of The Most High, followed by the Elohim, followed by Archangels, and on down. The Most High in Hebrew beliefs never dealt with this reality.) A singular is obviously not the usage in that passage. How can anyone miss that? It is obviously plural. "Let us make man in our image...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.." There is no getting around the fact that "god" when used in that passage is not only plural, but both male and female. The link you gave is just more right-wing dancing around and telling outright lies, to try and make it fit the evangelical belief system, and it doesn't.
"You are saying in John 17:23 that this below is
all that was written?
Teleio teleio heis cosmos ginosko apostello agapao agapao
and translated into english is:
Made perfect one. World know sent love love.
and all the other words were added that change its orginal meaning?
What the orginal meaning then if I am following you right."
That's an excellent question. What was the original meaning? Here's one person's translation:
You made a perfect one. The world will know you send love and all are loved.
Do you have a better translation?
The bible is filled with mistranslations, insertions, that are no where to be found in the original, plus a few deletions.
Now, you tell me: What were the original Aramaic words that Jesus spoke that the Greek translation comes from in John 17:23?
Tiger - you are a liar. I have never heard of Hugh Ross.
I do nothing but quote literal scripture, and by my taking a literal view of the teachings of Jesus, the evangelicals dance around like they've got a dozen burrs in their butt. The evangelicals can't stand the teachings of Jesus.
There is no such thing as "rapture" - it's not in the bible. There is no such thing as a "holy trinity" or trinity of any kind, it is not in the bible. And the biggest teaching of Jesus that the evangelicals can't stand is that "the kingdom of god is within you" or as others translate "inside of you." It is not some future time place you get to. It's here now. That's what Jesus taught, that's what I believe. If you think that these are "false" teachings, then you are to be pitied.
"Hi healme :)
#73099 is a follower of Hugh Ross whom is making a lot of money on selling books, and what I consider blasphemy.
it is Jesus Himself who gave warnings by partially describing "false prophets" as they will appear throughout the times of the New Testament church.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. (Matthew 7:15)
It is not difficult to find other Scriptural characteristics for false prophets or false apostles. In 2 Timothy 3, Paul describes the condition of society that will mark the "last days." The description is exactly that of our present times. Described in 2 Timothy 3:5 are those
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Paul also gives direct characteristics that will aid in identifying false prophets or false apostles.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. . . . For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (II Corinthians 11: 3-14)"
"You quoted Hugh Ross word for word"
You are a liar, I've never heard of him. Quote from his writings and then match them up with mine. That said, respond to what I wrote instead of pinning labels on me. But pinning labels on people and pointing to others is typical evangelical teaching. They are afraid to look at themselves and take responsibility for own misery. They have to point out the "errors" of others, which is against the teachings of Jesus.
You are the reincarnation of the Inquisition when they killed people for no reason at all. You can't do that in this lifetime now, can you?
Oh come on now Tiger, you don't even make sense.
"Read what you said here!!!
>>>>In this passage "god" is obviously plural and obviously not a man<<<<
EVER HEARD OF THE FATHER< SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT???"
Yes, but the author of Genesis never did. Go to Genesis 1:26:
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
The word for god in that passage is Elohim. It's meaning has nothing to do with the trinity. The Elohim were fourteen entities (spirit), seven male and seven female. Can you follow that? What more do you need to understand that there were fourteen entities who created heaven and earth. The Most High, the Supreme Being, is never mentioned in Genesis. All words for god, lord, and like kind are either Elohim, or one individual Elohim (Eloah). The names of the seven male Elohim are: Ildabaoth; Jehovah (he was an Eloah, not the Supreme Being); Sabaoth; Adonai; Eloeus; Oreus; and Astanphaeus. I don't currently have the seven female Elhim names.
>>>>"god" is obviously plural and obviously not a man, but both male(s) and females(s)<<<<
I stick by that statement. See above.
"REFER BACK TO YOUR BIBLE PASSAGE WHERE IT SAYS: 27 God created man (D)in His own image, in the image of God He created him.
Note the word "him"!!! Why do you call God a female when it clearly states He created "man" in his image.??? God created "man" first."
I gather that you have a limited understanding of the English language, and it is glaring through. "Man" is a generic noun referring to all of humanity. Are you aware of that? Now look just a little farther in verse 27 and you will see that god created "man" (generic, humans) in "his" (another generic, mistranslated word) image. If god is truly a "man"/"his", then why did he create both male and female. "In his image." Both men and women are the image of god, the image of the Elohim. Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
So you believe that god made man first? Nowhere in that passage does it say that at all. That's your own personal misinterpretation. Notice also that in verse 28 it says:
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
So we now have the creation of both a male and a female and sent them out to "multiply and replenish" the earth. That's a very powerful statement. It says to replenish, which means that humans had been on the earth and spread around the globe before this creation of humans.
It was not until later, second chapter of Genesis, that god created Adam. He had already created a woman in chapter one. Now, he creates Adam and a woman. There are obviously two creations. Theologians, real students of the bible are aware of this.
But back to the main point. The "god" of creation is plural, both male and female. Does it bother you that the Hebrews had female gods? (They eventually twisted that too - it isn't only evangelicals who have twisted and abused the bible.) Does it bother you that females are created in gods image? Or do you believe the teachings of the Roman, Christian killer, Pharisee, Saul who said that a female was subservient to males? By the way, that's a typical Pharisee outlook - females were limited in where they could go in the temple, and the Pharisees were the enforcers.
"Show me a website that confirms everything you
I quote the bible and you want a web site? Who do you think you
are? I used scripture and reasoning. As I said in an earlier post,
you lack of command of the English language is lacking. I'd suggest you
brush up on that and then reread the first chapter of Genesis.
I earlier gave the name of a book that details some of what I wrote.
Get it from your local library. It is very popular.
"Well tell me the reasoning behind the 7 female and 7 male entities. You are saying this is what makes up the Elohim and this is only used plurally throughout all of genesis. Correct?
I very specifically did not say that. I said that Eloah was also used in Genesis (and elsewhere), or, they are named individually, including Jehovah who was an Eloah. (I listed the seven names of the male Elohim. Did you read that?)
The reasoning behind the Elohim? There is no reasoning. It was the belief system of the Hebrews at the time it was written. It's no more difficult to understand than that. Later translators made all the revisions.
And this is not referred to as God or Eloah as used singularly elsewhere in the bible. Correct? So when Eloah is used it only speaks of a individual Elohim as one of the 7 which we never could know which one it could be speaking. Correct? And where do these come from (the elohim)? Where did these names come from? Also which word is used for the surpreme being in scripture?"
Again, you are walking in on the belief system of the Hebrews who wrote Genesis. That was simply how they believed. It isn't very difficult. When the Supreme Being was mentioned in the OT, it was as "The Most High." The Hebrews held the name of the Supreme Being in such high regard that they were forbidden to say or write the name. (If you wish to find out more on this, it is explained in detail, with the names, in The Hidden King James Bible. It is a very popular book and not at all controversial.)
As for John 17:23 I don't know why you are asking me
for the translation. You said it was incorrect. So I assumed you had the correct
There is no "correct" interpretation of the Greek transliteral English words in that passage. I was only asking how you would interpret it. Use your own logic that god gave you, instead of what the translators of KJV did which was to insert words and meaning that were nowhere to be found. This is true of translations throughout the bible.
You referred to mistranslations of the originals. Yet you ask where the originals are? Kinda confusing don't you think.
I think it's very confusing. How can people say they believe in a literal interpretation of the Greek words attributed to Jesus which were not recorded by eye witnesses and written decades later, when Jesus spoke them in Aramaic. When you say it's "Kinda confusing" you're getting the entire point of my postings on this subject. It is confusing.
Also When John says the word was with God and the word
was God and everything was created by him. Are you saying the word , WORD
translates to Elohim as well or is this scripture wrong too. And might I ask
what is the correct translation of this or are you going to ask me what it is.
We are now in the NT. We are now translating from Greek, not Hebrew. We have an entirely different perspective. God in this sense is probably The Most High.
Why do you not think the US in Genesis could not be Father,Son and Holy spirit?
You're really stuck between a rock and a hard place, aren't you. The US in Genesis was the Elohim speaking. Read the context.
You do believe in all 3?
Certainly I believe in all three.
The devil is the biggest conterfeit of all And he has 3 the Beast, the false prophet and the antichrist. They all work coincede together to accomplish his goal in the last day just as the Father, Son and holy spirit do. The word trinity doesn't have to be mention in the bible to know this.
The only devil that exists in this world, is the one inside each and everyone of us. And that's where we are to do battle with him. The bible only mentions an antichrist in I and II John and it clearly states that there were antichrists present at the time those books were written. Why are people so blind to what the bible says? There is no antichrist in the book of Revelation or anywhere other than I and II John.
The false teachers of the bible use it to twist and reverse the teachings of Jesus in order to instill fear and to promote their own power game. They don't even take time to understand the origins of the bible, they just buy the hell and damnation idolatry that has been peddled from the beginnings of the Roman Church.
False prophets use tactics similar to:
1) the tactics tyrants use in their speeches to stir the masses (emotions, falsehoods, irrational statements, confusion, uncertainty, partial truths, false logic, and their own line of reasoning...lest you think for yourself).
2) tactics used by intelligence agencies to further propaganda (misinformation, diversion from the real issue, controversy and chaos in order to prevent intelligent discussion, concealing their objective, and avoiding a simple and clear explanation of their motive for their assertions).
ANY kind of harsh language at all is useful to them in order to stir emotions (this is a telltale sign that controversy is the immediate goal and chaos will eventually follow)..."burrs in their butt". The introduction of harsh language also will enable them to feel free to call someone a "liar" and post themselves in a position of authority so that they can make assertions that they actually know the true Greek translation of scripture even though it makes no sense (of course a convenient explanation is that they know Greek anyway because they are Greek). They also present themselves as having the imagined right to be judgemental of other people and have decided that someone doesn't have a "command of the english language". The objective is that we should realize that we don't measure up to their standards, and that we should feel inferior because of that. The false prophet is not a very forgiving person. All in all, subjugation is the name of the game, truth and certainty (stability) is not allowed in darkness.
The next statement is so irrational that confusion is the immediate result, and the foundation of uncertainty has been planted..." The evangelicals can't stand the teachings of Jesus".
The internet holds new surprises for me. I never thought that there would be a person on earth to come on to a Christian forum and have the audacity or intelligence level to claim that God is made up of 14 beings.