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Living in the Spirit
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Living in the Spirit, tut tut tut, it is breaking Curezone rules to disclose private pm's but if you are only going to post part of a pm you need to post all of it and not just the bits you want people to read. you left out the bits where you asked me to answer two questions about Rainy? Why?
Also you can see I have not been on the forum of late and you need to realise I have another life outside of Curezone, a very busy lifestyle but I am answering you now so if you want a quick answer from me don't hold your breath, no offence!- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
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Google AdvertisementThis is a reply to # 2,424,401Tansy: Living in the Spirit, tut tut tut, it is breaking Curezone rules to disclose private pm's but if you are only going to post part of a pm you need to post all of it and not just the bits you want people to read. you left out the bits where you asked me to answer two questions about Rainy? Why?
Ed: I posted my own words to you, not yours to me and i specifically posted the two sentences which i felt were pertinent in response to what you said and which clarified the truth of what transpired to counter your intentional misrepresentation. Now you are addressing something different and I don't have any problem with sharing those two perfectly natural questions which were part of the process of exploring for whether or not you had become unbiased and sincere through Rainy's admission of wrong doing which obviously you haven't. The two natural questions in response to Rainy's apology were as follows, "Out of curiosity, were you surprised when Rainy apologized for her behavior and did her acknowledgement of misbehavior change your perspective in any ways?
Also out of curiosity, is there anything i had written in my responses to you that you now see differently?
It is you who initiated the public discussion as to the content of the private messages, so maybe it would be helpful for you to allow the hypocrisy of what you are doing to sink in?
I have really been patient with you Tansy, but at this point i think you are going out of your way to be exceedingly manipulative and deceitful. I would only encourage you to examine your heart and to be very careful as to whose child you are choosing to be. I so deeply hope you are able to recognize this cluster of sin you are in and that you will make the right decision to turn from it. The first step would need to be a sincere willingness to take a deeply honest look at yourself.
God bless.
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Well it is like this Living in the Spirit you claimed you did not want to talk about it on the forum with me about Rainy so contacted me by pm to discuss this behind the scenes concerning Rainy but you have been openly discussing the subject of Rainy with others in the last ten days and also why would you pm me when I posted the question in the debate forum in the first place, you state your reason but don't you think as I posted it in this forum you should have replied in this forum and not tried to discuss it behind the scenes in a private mail concerning her. If you ask me it is you who have been manipulative and not me, I am only speaking the truth so why would that make me manipulative? Or did I tell a lie that you pm me and why would you say about whose child I was for telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, that is a very strange thing to say when I have only told the truth. If telling the truth makes me deceitful then so be it but that means the deceit came from you for posting it in the first place.Advertisement
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- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
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Google AdvertisementGoogle AdvertisementThis is a reply to # 2,424,410It was a simple timing issue Tansy. Once Rainy apologized about 10 days ago or so, i didn't want to continue discussing her pre-emptive ad hominem attacks in the public forum. I wanted to show her that respect as a natural and healthy response to her own healthy actions. But then a few days later she began to do it all over again and so i was prepared to challenge it all over again. So in that time after she apologized and before she started back in with the ad hominem's, i wanted to address your public question to me in a private pm. Does this adequately explain it?
As far as you introducing information from our pms into the public forum and then saying i'm not allowed to do what you just did, what you initiated, i see that as being manipulative and hypocritical. I feel that your general practice of bringing up private issues in the public forum was manipulative, including reaching back 6 months to do it. As well, you had 6 months to tell me privately that you didn't want me to pm you, but instead, you had to make a public spectacle of it which i see as an inappropriate and grandiose gesture and more manipulation.
I also feel that your bias and absence of fair mindedness has been troubling and that it ultimately results in deceit and dishonesty, even if you are completely unaware of what you are doing. Are you still unable to acknowledge that rainy pre-emptively initiated 20 personal attacks in this thread and/or that pre-emptive initiation of ad hominem personal attacks is not mature and Christlike behavior as a way of voicing a difference of doctrinal opinion? If you are unable to do this, then i would suggest that you are stuck in a state of willful blindness, bias, favoritism, etc. That you are not successfully separating your religious beliefs from hostile and disrespectful behavior. You are acting as if as long as someone agrees with you doctrinally, then they can behave as abusively towards those who have a differing opinion as they would like and no matter how abusive they are, it's perfectly ok since they agree with your religious opinions.
Here are two paragraphs for you from a post i made a couple days ago. Both of them heavily involve you.
Another tangential point here is that various people have been enabling Rainy's bad behavior in this thread because they have been unable to separate their agreement with Rainy's Catholic originated dogma from Her hostile and angry emotionally driven personally attacking bad behavior which is an entirely separate issue from whatever Catholic originated Dogma these individuals agree with Rainy and the Catholic church upon.
"I would dare say that if everything had been reversed, if Rainy had been the one sincerely seeking God's truth in love through prayer, fasting and using actual non institutionalized Holy Spirit discernment - apart from placing so much trust in and dependency upon Catholic originated Dogma - and if i had been the one conforming to this Dogma which the false catholic church forced upon the populace literally with the threat of torture and/or death by burning at the stake to any and all non-conformists then as a supporter and propagator of Catholic Dogma, as a twice the son of hell zealot of this religious system, i would have been able to pre-emptively initiate 20 personal attacks against Rainy and these enablers would have been defending my actions and would have set their hearts against her and gaslit a version of a story that would have minimized and justified these pre-emptive personal attacks and would have reversed in their counterfeit version of reality which individual had actually pre-emptively initiated these personal hostilities."
- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
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Ed: ....even after she apologized which is something i did not want to do. Also, since Rainy has resumed her personal hostilities....
Rainy: Ed, you misunderstood my apology. I certainly did not apologize for calling out your false beliefs. I did apologize for not stating things in a more loving manner which I am not sure I am even able to do with these serious errors. You would most likely have been offended no matter how I stated things. I never wanted to offend you, but sometimes the truth is offensive. It is still better to tell the truth than cover it up in order to not offend someone. The outcome can be very disastrous if we do and say all things with the motive of not offending others.Advertisement
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- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
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Rainy: Ed, you misunderstood my apology.
Ed: Actually i really do understood what you were apologizing for Rainy.
Rainy: I did apologize for not stating things in a more loving manner...
Ed: This is what i understood.
Rainy: ... which I am not sure I am even able to do with these serious errors.
Ed: Then you have your work cut out for you. First you have to recognize that treating people with kindness in disagreement is actually possible, not impossible. Maybe if you first learn and completely understand what personal attacks are so you are able to at least recognize them when your heart and mind immediately want to rush there as opposed to stating and supporting your positions? Is treating people with respect and common decency really so difficult for you? Is this how you treat everybody in the world who is not a fundamentalist "christian", a zealot for catholic originated dogma? If you are sincere about wanting to learn what ad hominem personal attacks look like and how you can state your position without making these personal attacks, i am willing to help you. I have already provided you with 20 examples. If you are unable to see what was wrong with any of these 20 personal attacks, then did you apologize for something to which you were completely oblivious?
As one exercise, maybe you can think of someone that you really love and care about. Maybe it's a 5 year old child, maybe it's your mother or aunt or maybe a cute puppy. Imagine how you would want people to talk to them with kindness and respect regardless of their beliefs. Imagine how it would make you feel is someone hammered them with the same 20 personal attacks that you leveled against me in one post. Is this how you want these loved ones spoken to?
Something else of value would be learning about "logical fallacies" and not using these in dialogues and/or debates.
Why haven't you ever said, "the reason i believe in a 100% God breathed (original) bible is x, y and z". The reason i don't believe Jesus was excluding himself when He said that His Father was the one true God is x, y and z". As opposed to: "you're so deceived because you don't believe the way i do, You don't have any discerneemtnt because you don't believe the way i do", "you need to stop watching youtube videos because only i am able to choose the right ones", etc. Maybe too think about how Brown and White and other professionals debate eachother. Nobody who wants to be taken seriously launches into pre-emptive personal attacks Rainy unless they don't know how to honestly and skillfully defend their beliefs. It is an extremely immature and unhealthy tactic. Can you even imagine Brown or white doing that to eachother?
Rainy: You would most likely have been offended no matter how I stated things.
Ed: No Rainy, this is a cop out and you are better than this. You were being personally abusive with ad hominem attacks. It really is possible to express yourself and your doctrinal beliefs without doing this. But it first takes the decision to recognize that it's wrong to behave that way and to change it. and then it would take practice.
One of the greatest ways to live in the Spirit is to develop the practice of "taking every thought captive and bringing into into obedience to Christ" which is one of the most practical and essential bible verses when it comes to Living unto God.
Rainy: I never wanted to offend you, but sometimes the truth is offensive.
Ed: Dogmatism is offensive rainy, but even such dogmatic phrases as "The bible (original) is 100% God breathed, inerrant, infallible and the final authority" ","The Koran is the 100% God breathed word of God, dictated to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel" "Jesus is God" ,"Mohammad was God's greatest messenger", "God is a Trinity" are nowhere near as offensive to the person that does not believe these dogmatic statements as the kind of personal attacks you have made a habit of habitually launching into when someone does not agree with you. Hopefully you are willing to become much more clear on the difference.
Rainy: It is still better to tell the truth than cover it up in order to not offend someone.
Ed: I believe it is great for you or anybody else to speak what you believe the truth to be, but not in the area of ad hominem attacks. Speaking truth can be done with kindness, patience and other aspects of Love and need not be accompanied by ad hominem attacks. Maybe you can try to act more like Brown and White when you are stating your case and trying to convince someone to see things your way.
Rainy: The outcome can be very disastrous if we do and say all things with the motive of not offending others.
Ed: The outcome can be very disastrous if you push people away from God by hammering them with pre-emptive ad hominem attacks and if you push other people away from God when they see that your example is not at all Christlike.
You will have a much better chance of encouraging people to see things your way with kindness, not with hostility and deprecation.
This was a quick response so it's not comprehensive or as clean as i might have liked.
God bless you.- Re: Warning against institutionalize... UserX
3 years ago
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Wow Ed! Go back and read some of your email responses to me. Do you really believe you have followed your own standards that you outlined here?
https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2424412#i
Also, look at all your lying personal attacks to me in your thread. Were you following Brown and White's example for those posts?
Don't bother emailing me. I now have a new email and I have no intentions of giving it to you. I've had more than enough of your rude emails. Thanks anyway.
I am working on my own imperfections and I sure don't need your help.Advertisement
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- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
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Wow that was a surprisingly hostile and angry response to my kind and practical suggestions. Once again you demonstrate that your intentions to grow were not sincere.
In every instance throughout our entire history rainy including throughout any emails we have exchanged in years gone by, it has always been you to pre-emptively initiate the hostile personal attacks. In general, it is the more spiritually immature individual who will pre-emptively initiate these personal attacks and every time you do this, you reinforce how spiritually immature you are. This unfortunate negative character trait of yours is so deeply ingrained that I expect you have been this way since early childhood and apparently you still have no intention whatsoever of changing it.
To answer your questions Rainy, i do follow the standards i expressed to you. Specifically I follow the standards modeled by Lord Jesus Himself. He was not the pre-emptive initiator of personal attacks the way you are and neither am i, but there are many examples where He has responded to the pre-emptive personal attacks of others with personal attacks of His own including by calling His dogmatic instititutionalized religious enemies hypocrites, brood of vipers, blind guides and sons of their father the devil.
According to the Lord Jesus' many examples which He modeled, it is not in itself a sin to respond to a personal attack with a personal attack of your own. Your problem is that you are consistently the one to pre-emptively initiate these personal attacks, just as the pharisees did against Jesus. Please hear me Rainy. The key here is that you are the initiator just as you were with your 20 pre-emptive personal attacks in this thread, just as you were in threads of about 2 or 3 months ago, just as you were in the eternal torment thread that comes to mind a couple years back, and just as you were in posts of several years ago and our emails from several years back.
The reason brown and white are not exchanging ad hominem personal attacks is that neither of them pre-emptively initiates them the way you do. They both have the human decency, maturity and respectfulness to not be the one to dip into the gutter. Where you and i are concerned Rainy, the initiator of these hostilities has always been you. If i debated brown and white, there would be no personal attacks because neither they nor i would be willing to stoop down into the gutter to initiate such an attack as you have made a lifestyle of doing. This absence of ad hominem attacks is also true in the various dialogues i have had with Trapper over the past few months. But if you were to debate Brown and White Rainy... well dipping into the gutter and being the one to wickedly pre-emptively initiate personal attacks is all you know.
Since the Holy Spirit did not teach you to be the pre-emptive initiator of hostile and angry ad hominem personal attacks and since this has long been such a prolific and deeply ingrained habit of yours, what spirit do you think taught you to be this way and what spirit has been reinforcing this all these years? What spirit do you think you are listening to every time you repeat this same wicked pattern of behavior?
In your stubbornness and in your apparent willful desire to remain a slave to sin, you have not allowed the Holy Spirit to teach you to overcome this exceedingly fleshy attitude and deplorable behavior. This is a deep issue of sin Rainy that you have never repented of.- Re: Warning against institutionalize... UserX
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Google AdvertisementThis is a reply to # 2,424,416So a while back you were both email friends but that obviously came to an end and that said's it all really. No need to say anything else, I understand now what is really going on here.
- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
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Yes Rainy pre-emptively initiated the same type of hostile and abusive ad hominem attacks back then too just as she pre-emptively initiated in this thread. I expect it's been a life long habit for her and unfortunately she never learned the correct way to behave. Hopefully you don't intend upon following in her footsteps Tansy.
God bless.- Re: Warning against institutionalize... UserX
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But you know as well as I do that Rainy meant only to save your soul and you did not care for her to do that at all. That is the truth of it. It does not matter what I think yet your accusations of a loyal friend taking sides have made you a hypocrite. You call them personal attacks but I see things differently than you do, I see someone trying her hardest to get through to someone and she made a big mistake with you yet you say I must be taking her part because of friendship and that is not the way I thought you worked, I was wrong. I will be honest you have disappointed me greatly with your persistence in your manner. Not only did you go ott with me today asking whose child I belonged to but you have gone ott with Rainy all the way and to me it said's one thing about you. No way do you walk in Jesus's ways because Jesus would never have called someone out for trying to save his soul, he would not have done, not in a million years. He may well have put them right on a few things but he would have loved that person for trying.- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
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Google AdvertisementThis is a reply to # 2,424,419Essentially Tansy there is a parallel here. The pharisees and their prosthelytes do essentially think they were trying to save Jesus' soul with their religious Dogma. If you were a prosthelyte of the pharisees back in Jesus day, you would have been in favor of the pharisee's personal attacks against Jesus and defending these pharisees in their personal attacks saying, "well Jesus is just not appreciating that these pharisees are trying to save His soul". Today you trust in the same same type of institutionalized religious system, this time in the form of Catholic originated religious Dogma that Rainy so zealously trusts in and somehow, amazingly, neither of you, nor billions of other people throughout history have been able to see that this Dogma is immensely contrary to the Lord Jesus' own teachings and this also includes the idol worship of a bible, ascribing God-like characteristics to it that simply do not exist. You assume that Rainy's catholic originated dogma is right and that my desire to follow the actual teachings of Jesus is wrong. That's just one of your many mistakes and so many other mistakes in your thinking are the direct result of this one.
Also Tansy, i have been saying that you are supportive of Rainy because you align with her catholic originated religious dogma and this is so obviously true because if you supported my doctrinal beliefs instead of hers, then you would think it was me who was trying to save Rainy's soul and you would support any and all abusive tactics in that endeavor. The fact that you are her friend is secondary to your dogmatic alignment with her and likely you would not be friends with her if you did not agree dogmatically because Rainy would be launching hostility filled ad hominem attacks against you which is really all she knows.
My actual quote was the following: "I would only encourage you to examine your heart and to be very careful as to whose child you are choosing to be". It's a warning to be careful in your choices, not a statement of who your father is.
Do you think you could do me a favor and at least try to correctly represent what i have actually written? Its quite counter-productive having to consistently correct your misrepresentations when all you really have to do is pay more careful attention to what i am actually writing.
It's interesting you say that i have disappointed you greatly Tansy and i can only say with the deepest sincerity and with sadness in my heart that the feeling is most definitely mutual. I have tried very hard to help you to see truth and you have no appreciation for this whatsoever. No matter what i have said, you have continued to cling to catholic originated Dogma and in truth that false system and its false dogma is your idol and essentially it is your lord.Advertisement
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- Re: Warning against institutionalize... UserX
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But I am not talking about the Pharisees, I am talking about the teachings of Jesus Christ through the Holy Bible, the same Bible that you find fault in, yet I only see it as the words of God. It was not Rainy who opened my eyes it was God who called me and Rainy is full of the Holy Spirit so much so she is on fire for God. You can keep your scales on your eyes if you wish because God removed mine ages ago. I need to bow out, I am getting behind in my duties today... My Blessings to you and I very much hope you can move on from this... I am sure you can, by the way you come across very well educated, just an observation...
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Google AdvertisementThis is a reply to # 2,424,416I will agree to disagree. You are trying to get me to believe the lies you are telling about me. This is called "gaslighting" and, yes, you are the one who is doing it. I only wanted to call out your false beliefs. Yes, I could have done it in a more loving manner. For that and that only I do apologize. I do not apologize for calling out the false beliefs. You do not believe the Bible, except in part, so we have nothing to discuss or debate anyway as you have no standard except for the being that lives inside of you that I do not trust. I don't have time for debate anyway. We have discussed most of your false beliefs in past threads. If you are interested you can hunt them up. I do not have time to give my time at will to whoever wants it for their own purposes, or just to waste it. I have a life to live outside of curezone. I need to stay on task and spend my time the way I feel God wants me to spend it and not waste it in useless debates.
You wanted to debate. I just wanted to call out your false beliefs. We can't debate anyway because you only believe the Bible in part.
PS: You were gaslighting me in your emails too. Why would I seek help from someone who gaslights me? I'm not that far gone!Advertisement
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- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
613
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The very truth that would help to de-program you from the Brainwashing lies of the Catholic originated religious Cult to which you have sold your soul - and which is a derivative of the pharisee originated religious Cult before it - is the very truth you so willfully reject.
Because you have been so thoroughly Brainwashed by that Religious Cult - just as is true with other Brainwashed Cult members in other situations such as Jehova's witness and Islam that you would be able to recognize - the truth is going to feel to you and these other cult members like lies/deception/gas lighting since you have become so deeply caught up in deplorable sin and so thoroughly convinced that your religious idol and its Dogma is ultimate truth, rather than actually being filled with and led by the Holy Spirit for yourself, the Heavenly Father's Spirit which would be showing you the truth that you are trapped in the counterfeit religious system, the Whore church and a Massive institutionalized Religious Cult if only you would allow His truth to speak to you. As is also true with the Muslims and the Jehovah's witnesses, any time you place so much trust in a religious Cult as you have done, you surrender your will to that Cult and you are no longer willing or able to actually hear the Heavenly Father and His Holy Spirit for yourself.
I know it would be truly heartbreaking for you Rainy to finally realize that all of these years you have been caught up in a Religious Delusion as a prosthelyte puppet of this Religious Cult just as is true with Jehova's witnesses and Muslims and that most likely a big part of this was Brainwashed into you through fundamentalist bible college, but ultimately i'm sure you would be really happy to finally be free from the bondage you are in to that false institutionalized Brainwashing Cult that is the Whore church.
Can you imagine how freeing it would be to recognize that the infinitely wise and loving Heavenly Father is not a God that supports slavery, rape and double standards against women?... and that your religious Cult was lying to you about all of this by systematically indoctrinating you into its deception that says everything in its bible is 100% God breathed, inerrant, infallible and the final authority above God Himself just because it's counsel of corrupted and murderous catholic bishops said so and declared their decision to be infallible?
To someone free from the religious Brainwashing, it's so easy to see through the twice the sons of hell religious delusion that you are caught up in, but i know it must be incredibly hard for you since what you have are religious scales over your eyes instead of eyes that are able to see truth. This religious delusion is so strong that you actually believe that Lord Jesus is aligned with your pagan influenced Catholic originated Dogma, and aligned with your religious Cult from which this Dogma emerged.
If you don't want freedom from this Catholic originated religious Cult to which you have sold your soul, and from the immense twice the sons of hell religious wickedness and other sin you have surrendered yourself into, then yes, by all means let us agree to disagree.
The Heavenly Father will sort it out in the end and i believe He will go easy on you and treat you with the Love in which your Catholic originated religious Cult and the pharisee Cult from which it is derived has always been so deeply lacking, including in crucifying the Lord Jesus Himself and in burning God's other true followers at the stake all the while actually Delusionally believing they were doing the Heavenly Father a favor. This same spirit has you trapped Rainy and i am so deeply rooting for you to get free.
God bless.
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This is a reply to # 2,424,427And you continue lying about me. I don't think there is one sentence in this post that is truth.
This part is funny: "Can you imagine how freeing it would be to recognize that the infinitely wise and loving Heavenly Father is not a God that supports slavery, rape and double standards against women?... and that your religious Cult was lying to you about all of this by systematically indoctrinating you into its deception that says everything in its bible is 100% God breathed, inerrant, infallible and the final authority above God Himself just because it's counsel of corrupted and murderous catholic bishops said so and declared their decision to be infallible?"
After all my posts on here you should know that I don't believe this now. I'm already free from this false teaching. Be blessed. Life is calling me.Advertisement
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- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
649
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From the Pharisees to the Catholics to their Protestant offspring to the Jehovah's witnesses and the Muslims, those twice the sons of hell religious prosthelytes caught up in institutionalized religious Brainwashing and the accompanying religious Delusions do not have eyes to see and never have. To them, lies are truth and truth is a lie. To them, evil is good and good is evil. To them, their wickedness and deplorable unloving behavior is always justifiable even when it means crucifying the Lord Jesus Himself, burning other true followers of the Heavenly Father at the stake, or pre-emptively initiating hostile and abusive personal attacks against those who do not agree with their religious Dogma. None of those counterfeit religious systems and their twice the sons of hell prosthelytes are of the Heavenly Father, but rather, they are all anti-Christ.
I stand with the Heavenly Father behind everything i have already written Rainy and will not bother to further reinforce it at this time. Obviously you and i are in disagreement and the back and forth has to end somewhere.
Genuinely hoping the best for you.
God bless. - Re: Warning against institutionalize... UserX
3 years ago
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Google AdvertisementThis is a reply to # 2,424,428Rainy I hope you have learned your lesson with Living in the Spirit, it's time to move on when they make false accusations against you, that's trouble you don't need. God is watching Rainy and he does not expect you to work on anyone that will not listen... make him history Rainy for there is more to this than meets the eye....
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Unfortunately you see everything in reverse just as the pharisees did and it's because you have the same religious spirit and jezebel spirit they had. Just like those pharisees, you call good evil and evil good. Just like those pharisees you despise truth. You are not a follower of Jesus, but rather a follower of false religion just as the pharisees were. You really do have scales over your eyes and an inability to correctly see. You need a lot of deliverance. I hope this helps.- Re: Warning against institutionalize... UserX
3 years ago
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Google AdvertisementThis is a reply to # 2,424,459Actually I think I got it wrong, you're not so educated as I thought...
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- Re: Warning against institutionalize... UserX
3 years ago
623
- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
613
- Re: Warning against institutionalize... UserX
3 years ago
613
- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
668
- Re: Warning against institutionalize... UserX
3 years ago
649
- Re: Warning against institutionalize... Living in the Spirit
3 years ago
640
Expand 13 messages, 101 to 113 of 113 trapper/kcmo
3 years ago
611
