V: Well my point is that the NAR and the Word of Faith, both which are growing enormous, are filled with people that say they have the gift of healing, gift of tongues, gift of prophecy, etc. That's what these groups are all about.
E: Well i believe first it's about embracing Jesus as Savior and Lord and choosing to be His follower. Secondly it's about embracing and walking in the instructions and giftings in which He has given us. Of course imperfect men will make mistakes with this, but hopefully they are doing their best.
V: So going back to what I said in a previous post: Why were the gifts of healing, gifts of tongues, gifts of prophecy, etc. given? To authenticate the true message of the gospel.
E: Yes i agree and in going back to what i said in a previous post, i believe the true gospel being authenticated by miracles is every bit as true and important today as it was for the early church. I also believe that it requires a special and inordinate level of blindness to see this otherwise.
V: So because these groups do not care about the true gospel,
E: this is your opinion and they would say the same about your version of the gospel which removes important parts of it...
V: ... and really only care about uniting together with those that believe a false gospel,
E: I believe they care about the true gospel and also about living out the Lord's words in John 17 as much as possible, though as humans, they are not living this out in perfection. God sees the heart and intention is very important to Him.
V: these gifts they think they are experiencing, are not from God. They are lying signs and wonders. The catholics think they see miracles all the time of Mary appearing, etc. They are just as confident about that as the NAR people and Word of Faith people are about the miracles they see. But these things are not from God.
E: While this is your opinion, i believe the gifts today are the same as those experienced by followers of the Lord in the early church. I believe that in the early church just as now, there were both true and false manifestations, but then as now many more true than false. I also believe that you are not anywhere near qualified to distinguish between what is from God and what is not. All you are able to do instead is insist that it was all true and perfect and of God 2000 years ago and that it's all false and of the devil today. In calling every miraculous work prayed by servants of the Lord today "lying signs and wonders", you are walking in the footsteps of your pharisee forefathers who said to Lord Jesus that He casts out beelzebub by the power of beelzebub.
V: It doesn't matter if she wants to do those things or not. She is embracing them when she says we have to break down these walls and unite. She is embracing the catholic gospel when she says Jesus is calling for us all to unify.
E: What you are calling "the catholic gospel" are the words the Lord Jesus spoke in John 17 and i believe this is what she is embracing.
20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me." 22 The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me."
I don't believe stacey is saying "let's all drop our own beliefs and join the catholic church". Since i don't believe perfect doctrine is what gets us saved, and that most likely nobody in any of the 41,000 different denominations has it anyway, i think it would be great for a charismatic, a cessationist and a catholic who have different doctrinal opinions to all be able to have unity with one another in their love for the Lord Jesus and in their intimate connection with Him... which is what i believe Lord Jesus was expressing in John 17.
As much as our thinking differs in so many mind blowing ways, i would like to believe that if you really love Jesus and i really love Him, that at least we are united in this key and core area regardless of whatever misunderstandings you have about Him :). This is not the same as joining one anothers's religions, is it?... or even of believing that i have to become a cessationist or you having to become a believer that the miracle gifts are for today... and certainly not that a protestant religious person has to join the catholic religion. I am afraid that you are being alarmist about stacey's desire to live out the Lord's words in John 17 and blowing it way out of proportion, misunderstanding her intentions just as you have blown other things out of proportion, misinterpreting and misunderstanding them as well, acting this out in extremism, paranoia, and fear mongering.
Since maybe you have a better idea, how would you propose living out the Lord's desires in what He was saying in John 17? Are you able to lay out your ideas for this?
V: She even said she read the Catholic Catechism and loved it! What else do you need her to say that would convince you? :)
E: I have not read this, have you? As such, i could not comment on it. If you have read it, please quote the parts of it you feel are false.
V: And regardless, what Stacy Campbell is doing, practicing her demonism, etc. doesn't in anyway make her on better grounds than the Catholics, with their worship of Mary and other false practices.
E: And maybe she would feel that you are practicing demonism through your Spirit quenching doctrine of demons cessationist beliefs? She would probably be really nice to you about it though :).
V: Yeah I guess I'm just real gullible. These NAR people and Word of Faith people are such awesome people of God and would never in a million years embrace Catholicism. I mean only the devil would be behind something like that and they would never be deceived by him or his demons, especially when they are so obviously filled with the Holy Spirit as they are ferociously shaking their heads and making false prophesies. Oh that could never be. How ignorant am I to even suggest such a thing?
E: i don't see these nar leaders becoming members of the catholic church, confessing their sins to catholic priests and praying hail mary's any time in the next thousand years at least. I believe they have a whole different idea of what they mean when they talk about "unity" and "being one". If you still want to believe otherwise, that's your choice, but if you are ready to reconsider, please feel free to take a closer look at what the Lord Jesus is saying in John 17.