V: But this is the problem with that line of thinking Ed. You are not the only one on the planet. This life is not all about you... So do you not care what's happening with the millions of people that are being lead away from the true gospel?
E: At every opportunity, i encourage people to stop eating from the tree of religion and start eating from the tree of Life which is the true Gospel. At every opportunity i encourage people into intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus and pray with them towards this. Is this what you label as selfishness and not caring about other people?
V: You seemed so concerned the other day about the pain and sickness millions are experiencing in this very temporary life.
E: Only as concerned as Lord Jesus obviously was. Him being my Lord, i want to be concerned about the things that concern Him. Of course ultimately i am infinitely more concerned about where people will spend eternity, but helping them to get healed or delivered (and especially baptized in the Holy Spirit) only increases the likelihood of them following the Lord Jesus who is responsible for these miracles.
V: But I guess you don't care at all whether they know the true gospel or not which effects eternity.
E: Helping those who are suffering to experience God's healing and delivering touch as an overall aspect of gospel ministry does not work against them knowing the true gospel. It's a gospel not only of words, but of power. If people are to experience the deepest possible relationship with the Living God, the most important aspect of this to accompany true words is that they be baptized in the Holy Spirit since this changes everything and takes people far beyond mere head knowledge into a brand new Spirit connection with the Living God.
V: But I see another problem with what you just said. You say you are on the outside of all of this, but you are not by your own admission. I can pull up the posts where you said you went to one of Randy Clark's meetings and where you recommended Randy Clark as someone to go to for healing.
E: Where did i say i am on the outside "of all this"? i stated that i am neither a protestant nor a catholic, but one who follows Lord Jesus just as the early disciples did. and that i eat from the tree of life, not the tree of religion. This does not mean i don't wish to help those who are trapped in religion to get free from it, because i certainly do and included with this is that i would be very happy to help you get set free from it. My relationship with my Lord is not centered in the system of church, though i do feel led to visit various church meetings for different reasons than you would be able to understand. I expect that for you, me visiting a place would imply absolute agreement and alliance with everything that is said and done there despite me making it abundantly clear on multiple occasions that this simply is not the case.
Regarding your persisting obsession with Randy Clark, i will repeat that i would encourage anyone in need of miracle healing or deliverance who is not walking in this themselves to go to any number of millions of followers of Lord Jesus who walk in this authority/gifting just as the early followers of the Lord Jesus did. Of course people's level of authority/gifting will vary as the Lord will increase this as the result of faithful stewardship among other factors. If someone wanted to go to randy clark for healing prayer, i certainly would not stop them.
V: Well when Randy Clark heals someone, does he not tell them the gospel?
E: Every situation is different and as you might imagine, the healing conference i went to was not swarming with unbelievers. Many people who receive healing prayer are followers of Lord Jesus already. When praying for believers, he does pray in Jesus name and give Jesus the glory when they are healed. I expect when he ministers to unbelievers then accompanying the Lord's miracles with the gospel is a high priority just as it is for me. If you don't believe that Randy shares the gospel when he ministers to unbelievers, then please by all means prove it.
V: But wait a minute, Randy Clark is in this movement that doesn't care about the true gospel as evidenced by their eagerness to unite with the Catholic church and whoever else that doesn't believe the true gospel.
E: What exactly do you mean when you say "unite"? I would say that Randy clark is much more in touch with the true gospel than are you or your cessationist conglomeration who have chosen to exclude important parts of it. randy's ministry looks much more like that of Lord Jesus and of the early disciples than does yours. Not just words, but accompanied by power.
V: Randy Clark also celebrates demonism, along with the rest of the group.
E: Great theory. Now all you have to do is provide the evidence. I could say that you celebrate demonism by rejecting the Lord's model for sharing the gospel which includes healing the sick and casting out demons. See how easy it is to accuse someone of celebrating demonism? I do believe that the demons celebrate your cessationist beliefs.
V: You've also told us how you went to Bill Johnson's church, and even called it the most spirit filled church in all of the nation.
E: I have corrected you on this multiple times, but your comprehension remains remedial. You don't act like you even want to know the truth, but rather that you want to keep exaggerating and perpetuating lies. It really does grow tiresome having to repeat myself to you so many times with you continuing to misunderstand what i have been saying.
V: You embrace the NAR teachings and have said so yourself in the past.
E: When you say embrace, do you mean that i agree with some things they say and not with others? Because this is what i have always said, though maybe you are not able to comprehend such a thing. I even agree with some of the things cessationists say, just not the cessationist aspects. Am i excited about the nar conglomeration and am i a follower of it, in agreement with every aspect of what they do? Not whatsoever and there are aspects i strongly oppose and even personal interaction with some of its leaders that were not positive. In the same way i believe every cessationist is under demonic influence, specifically in the area of their blind and delusional cessationist beliefs, i believe some of these charismatic and/or nar leaders are demonically influenced as well, but in different areas. Remember that the job of demons is to do their best to influence people and torment them as much as possible. At least the nar folks know that healing the sick and casting out demons is something the Lord has given not only to the early church but also to His modern followers to embrace as a part of the overall gospel work.
V: You put videos up in support of the NAR.
E: As a response to your relentless and obsessive paranoia in attacking everything charismatic while defending the immensely detrimental demonic doctrine of cessationism, i did point out that much of what they believe is indeed true including that healing the sick and casting out demons is for today as is hearing and responding to God's living voice :). The aircraft carrier model was pretty cool too, yes :). This does not mean that i agree with every aspect of what they say and do, but you already knew this from me telling you multiple times before, didn't you?
V: You really liked what both Mike Bickle and Rick Joyner had to say about all the changes they were bringing to the church, including their aircraft carrier model for the church, remember?
E: I like a lot of things Mike Bickel says yes, while not agreeing with him on everything. If you were not so black and white, you would be able recognize that you agree with him in various areas as well. I am much less familiar with rick joyner and i expect you are recalling this inaccurately... though i am open to being corrected if i am wrong about this.
V: So you are being influenced by all this yourself left and right, and are also leading others into it by recommending these people.
E: not influenced by, but observing and discerning the true aspects from the false. I didn't even know what nar was until you kept making posts about it and i finally decided i would examine it for myself without bias. I wouldn't want people to be influenced by your extreme black and white paranoid and hysterical position on this, but would hope they can see it as it really is which essentially is a mixture of true and false as is true with seemingly everything within the system of church including the one you attend.
V: You can't just cop out on all this by saying you are on the outside of it all. Just doesn't add up. And it also sounds very selfish and goes against the teachings of scripture that tells us to warn people of false gospels,and expose those that teach a false gospel, etc.
E: Thankfully i am not copping out and i do warn people. Stay away from the demonic doctrine of cessationism people! And if you visit any charismatic church meetings, please do so with discernment, understanding that there are truthful principles and some miracles of the Lord to be embraced, but do not automatically embrace everything you see and hear! Not every "prophetic word" will actually be a word from God, (and i expect most will not) so beware and use discernment! Not every manifestation will be of God, so beware and don't fall into those that are not! Do not trust everything the man or woman up front say, or all that you see going on around you in the meeting, or throughout the church system in general, but develop intimate relationship with Lord Jesus, hear and trust Him! Let Jesus be your Lord fully and don't divide this up with allowing the church system take on part of His Lordship!