I'm going to start MMS and was wondering what the protocol was for probiotics? Does MMS kill the good bacteria too?
Yes, if in direct contact it will.
I currently take Klaire Labs Ther-Biotic complete (http://www.klaire.com/prod/proddetail.asp?id=V775-06)...I take 3 capsules a day (1 with breakfast, 2 in the evening with my aloe and vit C for a total of 75 billion CFUs...
You should not take ascorbic acid (vitamin C) at the same time as probiotics either.
but I am going to switch to Custom Brand Probiotics (11-strain powder) b/c it is inulin/FOS-free (I don't want to take any changes feeding the bad dudes!)
Anyways, my questions are:
-does MMS kill the good guys?
Yes, if in contact with the bacteria.
-Will taking probiotics be contradictory during MMS therapy?
More like MMS therapy is contradictory with most everything. MMS is an oxidizer so it can break down vitamins, alkaloids, and many other substances taken with it.
Of even more concern though is the chlorine component of MMS. Chlorine compounds can react with organic matter forming carcinogens and MMS can react with ammonia forming highly toxic chloramine.
-Should I continue my probiotics at the current dose or lower or increase the dose?
More important than probiotics are prebiotics. Simply supplying these beneficial bacteria then starving them is not going to get you very far.
-When is the best time(s) to take them so that they don't interact with the MMS?
If you are going to do it I recommend taking the MMS first. Then waiting at least an hour to allow all the MMS to be absorbed or react before taking any supplements.
-Any tips of MMS?
You mean other than avoid it? I am very leery of chlorine compounds like this. Chlorine dioxide is somewhat safe, but again unstable. It is the byproducts of chlorine dioxide are the worrisome part. These include chlorite and chlorate, which can induce hemolytic anemia among other things. There is also the chlorine produced by the breakdown of the unstable chlorine dioxide that can react with other substances forming poisonous compounds such as chloramine.
Also keep in mind that the excess chlorine can interfere with iodine in the body since it is an iodine antagonist. This can screw with your thyroid as well.
I'm a bit disappointed by this board, for I'm looking for help with a protocol MY DOCTOR is having me do. I trust him and he is one of MANY doctors I've been to...yet he is the ONLY ONE who actually cares and is willing to help.
I am sorry you feel that way, but I am not going to lie to you and tell you a product is wonderful when it really is not.
Do you know how many doctors I have seen push products simply because they were involved in the sales of that product? For example, when super blue-green algae came out through MLM marketing I saw a number of doctors pushing it even though the company marketing it lied about the safety of the product and how clean the lake supposedly was. The fact was that the algae, actually a cyanobacteria, contained microcystins and anatoxins that were damaging to the liver and nervous system. And the lake it was being harvested from is highly polluted. Yet these doctors never bothered to research the companies claims to see if any of them were true. Now the crap is coming back under new names and sure enough I see naturopathic doctors pushing it again.
Furthermore, if I did not care and did not want to help I would not be here answering your or anyone else's questions. But again, I am not going to lie about the safety or effectiveness of a product just because someone is claiming it is good. If I feel something is dangerous or ineffective based on my knowledge of science and medicine and research I have done then I am going to say so.
It would be helpful to not have people suggest I contradict what my doctor is telling me to do. None of u know my entire health history.
I don't need to know your entire health history to know that chlorine can combine with organic matter forming carcinogens or that chlorine is a halogen that displaces iodine, which in turn can suppress the thyroid. Tell us, is your doctor aware of these facts? Did he bother to tell you that these are potential risks? Or did he just read the sales hype and determine that it must be a "cure all"?
If MMS didn't work for u, then I'm sorry. However, it MAY work for me. Since EVERYTHING ELSE HAS FAILED, I'm willing to take the chance and try this.
And I was trying to explain to you why those things were failing.
MANY people have found relief from "incurable" issues due to MMS...the people who reacted badly probably fall into these categories:
-they did too much too fast
-they didnt take anything to "bind" the toxins they were eliminating
-they weren't hydrating enough
-They were very compromised to begin with, thus the MMS only compounded this
-They had high estrogen markers, which can make the detox effects worse (It has been noted that high estrogen markers may cause severe reactions to MMS).
Ok, let's use your same response. Do you know the entire medical history of all these people who had bad reactions to MMS? if not then how do you know this is true? Or is this just some of the sales hype the MMS sellers have put out there?
There are actually a couple of statements there that I can tell you right off the bat are ridiculous. For example, most toxins are destroyed by oxidation forming carbon dioxide and water or inert metal oxides. So the claim about not "binding the toxins" is nothing more than an excuse.
Secondly , estrogens are highly prone to oxidation again being broken down in to carbon dioxide and water. Neither of these are toxic to the body. This is why I started this forum, because there was so many false claims like those being spread on the internet. So I started this forum to address the many bogus health claims that were floating around on the internet.
This is also why I encourage people to do their homework, from NON-SALES sites, for the claims they read.
My chiro has had great success with this over the years for many of his clients. He wouldn't have me do something that could harm me and/or jeopardize his license. He is having me do it low/slow and will be in constant contact with me during this treatment.
Then ask him to address the points I brought up then research the answers. See if he really knows what he is talking about or if he simply listened to the sales hype as well.
What is really funny is that my ex-business partner is also a chiropractor. And he was also selling a similar liquid chlorine product. Even he admitted that the lady making the product had no clue what she was talking about, but he watched her sell $10,000 worth of product at one of her lectures. So he sold the product only because he saw the profit potential of selling the crap.
So, in closing, if you can offer nothing but criticism, then don't bother responding to my post. However, if you can offer advice that pertains to my question, then please reply away! :-)
Everything I have posted was with the intent to help you. But it sounds like you came here with your mind already made up and was just looking for confirmation. So you are just wasting my time since you are not looking for real answers but rather confirmation for something you were going to do regardless of what anyone here has told you to protect you from harm.
From what u know about my situation, can u please list what u would do if u were me? (what to fix first? What supps to take? Diet? etc)
It is hard to say since I do not know all what you are trying to address. I know you are trying to restore your flora, which is best done by focusing primarily on prebiotics. I posted a link to the Flora Garden in the other post that will provide more information. If you have multiple sensitivities and want to narrow things down to reduce the risk of a reaction then I recommend rice bran since you are able to tolerate brown rice. And as I mentioned in the other post yucca root powder can help with both building the flora and destroying yeasts, fungi and molds.
I also recommend cultured foods. Since you have problems with dairy and soy then I recommend water or coconut kefir and cultured vegetables.
There is a start. Again without knowing all what you are trying to address it is impossible to give other recommendations.
I don't know where you got your informaiton from but it is wrong. Have you read Jim Humbles site and this in particular?
So you think a salesman is telling you the truth? There is a good reason that I do not rely on sales sites for information and why I keep telling people to verify everything, even what I say, from non-sales sites. If we were to believe all the sales hype out there then Kangen water would be beneficial and would be approved by the Japanese Minister of Health as they claim. And Klamath Lake blue-green algae would be harvested from a pristine lake and would not contain liver and nervous system damaging anatoxins and microcystins. But Kangen water is far from healthy and IS NOT approved by the Japanese Ministry of Health. If you enlarge that document it in reality is nothing more than a business license to produce the machines. And as far as their claim about alkaline water units being in nearly all Japanese homes I asked my friend from Japan about that. She had no idea what these machines were. And as far as Cell Tech's claims about the "algae", the lake is so highly polluted, primarily with agricultural runoff (animal waste, herbicides, pesticides, etc.) that they are looking for a way to clean up the lake. In fact, you cannot even grow "algae" in a pristine lake. Algaes require nitrates and phosphates to flourish, which are coming primarily from the agricultural runoff. Cell Tech did not lie about the anatoxins and microcystins, they just failed to tell the public abut these toxins in their product. So if you want to believe in sales hype over real facts be my guest. If you injure yourself or make yourself worse by ignoring the facts that you were told then you only have yourself to blame.
As I said chlorine dioxide is unstable. Here is some NON-SALES sites proving this:
"Free chlorine and chlorine dioxide were the least stable in the pipe network."
MMS does not break down to chlorine or chlorate.
Again, you may have learned this from some sales hype but it is not true:
"In diluted, watery solutions chlorine dioxide is a free radical. At high concentrations it reacts strongly with reducing agents. Chlorine dioxide is an unstable gas that dissociates into chlorine gas (Cl2), oxygen gas (O2) and heat. When chlorine dioxide is photo-oxidized by sunlight, it falls apart. The end-products of chlorine dioxide reactions are chloride (Cl-), chlorite (ClO-) and chlorate (ClO3-)."
"Chlorine dioxide in unbuffered aqueous solution at pH 9 and 25°C decomposes to chlorate, chlorite, chloride and oxygen by coupled slow and rapid reactions."
Again, there is a good reason to not rely on sales hype to get your health information. Often it is because so many companies lie outright about their products.
It can also improve liver enzymes which indicates an improved liver.
Any proof to the claim from a non-sales site?
Sodium chloride, table salt, which has a chlorine molecule in it also does not break down to chlorine in the body.
Wrong on several points. First of all the sodium chloride is a molecule, the chlorine in sodium chloride is an atom. But sodium chloride is disassociated in the body to produce sodium and chlorine. If the chlorine was never separated from the sodium then how do you suppose the chlorine from sodium chloride ends up forming your stomach acid (hydrochloric acid, HCl)? So I don't know where you got that information, but again it is incorrect!
Oxygen is an oxidizer. Your body cannot not live without oxidizers. MMS is a mild oxidizer.
Fluorine is an oxidizer as well, but I would not recommend ingesting it.
Milder than ozone therapy which has been in medical use for over 50 years.
Ozone therapy originated in 1892.
It will not break down vitamins etc.
LOL!!! Again, you need to find a credible source of information. Vitamins are HIGHLY prone to oxidative destruction. This is why even the addition of water to vitamins rapidly degrades the vitamins. Water promotes oxidation!!! Most chemical oxidizers will not work without water. This is why you can take a handful of dry bleach and put it on some dry colored cloth and the bleach will not touch the cloth. Add some water though and the cloth bleaches quickly. The same applies to vitamins. Just the simple addition of water speeds up the oxidative destruction of the vitamins, which is why I never recommend liquid vitamins. They are a waste of money since the vitamins will have been long destroyed before you get them. Add an oxidizer like MMS and you speed up the oxidative destruction of the vitamins even faster. And it is not just vitamins. Amino acids are also affected forming mutagens:
"Environ Health Perspect. 1986 Nov;69:267-74.
Mutat Res. 1987 Aug;188(4):259-66.
Chlorine and chlorine dioxide (ClO2), common disinfecting and bleaching chemicals used in the food industry, are potent oxidizing and chlorinating agents. Unfortunately, little is known about the nature of the reactions of chlorine with organic food constituents. This presentation reviews published information concerning the reactions of chlorine gas (Cl2[g]), aqueous chlorine, and ClO2 with model food compounds, the fate of chlorine during the chlorination of specific food products, and the potential toxicity of the reaction products. Fatty acids and their methyl esters react with chlorine with the degree of incorporation corresponding to their degree of unsaturation. Aqueous chlorine oxidizes and chlorinates lipids and amino acids much more readily than ClO2. Several amino acids are highly susceptible to oxidation and chlorination by chlorine compounds. Reactions of chlorine and ClO2 with several food products, including flour and shrimp, have also been characterized. In one model system, 99% of Cl2(g) either reacted with components of flour or was consumed by oxidation/chlorination reactions. The lipids extracted from the chlorinated flour contained significant amounts of chlorine. Exposure of shrimp to hypochlorous acid (HOCl) solution resulted in significant incorporation of chlorine into the edible portion. Although significant quantities of chlorine can be incorporated into specific model compounds and food products, the health risks associated with exposure to chlorinated organic products are unknown. Preliminary studies using the Ames Salmonella/microsome mutagenicity assay indicate that the reaction products from mixtures of aqueous chlorine and various lipids or tryptophan are nonmutagenic. Nevertheless, additional studies are warranted, so that the toxicological significance of these reaction products can be understood more fully."
Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) is currently being considered as an alternate to chlorine as a disinfectant for water treatment. Many organic compounds present in water and food treated with ClO2 are subject to oxidation. 21 amino acids and 3 peptides (L-aspartyl-L-phenylalanine methyl ester (aspartame), L-glycyl-L-tryptophan and L-tryptophylglycine) were studied for their reactivity with ClO2. Chlorine dioxide reacted only with 6 amino acids in 0.1 M sodium phosphate buffer, pH 6.0. The reaction with cysteine, tryptophan and tyrosine was too rapid to be monitored either iodometrically or spectrophotometrically. The reaction with histidine, hydroxyproline and proline was found to be pseudo-first order. ClO2 readily reacted with L-glycyl-L-tryptophan and L-tryptophylglycine but not with aspartame. Mutagenicity studies with the Salmonella microsome assay of the reaction mixtures of ClO2 with those 6 reactive amino acids and the 3 peptides indicated that the reaction products of the 3 peptides, hydroxyproline, and tyrosine exerted mutagenic activity toward both tester strains of TA98 and TA100 in the presence and absence of rat-liver S9 mix."
J Hazard Mater. 2009 May 30;164(2-3):1089-97. Epub 2008 Sep 7.
J Hazard Mater. 2009 May 30;164(2-3):1089-97. Epub 2008 Sep 7.
Chlorine dioxide is a hypochlorite alternative disinfectant agent. In this context, we have determined the products formed in the reaction of ClO(2) with selected amino acids as model compounds that can be present in natural waters. The reaction of tryptophane, histidine and tyrosine (10 ppm each) with ClO(2) were studied at molar ratios ranging from 0.25 to 4 in the presence or absence of oxygen. It was found that in the absence of oxygen adding substoichiometric amounts of ClO(2) creates products that are structurally similar to the starting amino acids. Through a series of cascade reactions the initial product distribution gradually evolves toward simple, small carbon chain products that are far from the starting amino acid. The reaction product distribution revealed that chlorine dioxide can attack the electron-rich aromatic moieties as well as the nitrogen atom lone electron pair. Our study is relevant to gain knowledge on the reaction mechanism of ClO(2) with ubiquitous amino acids present in natural waters.
Oxidizers also destroy medications through oxidative destruction. Hormones are especially prone to oxidation, so in theory MMS could inactivate birth control pills. But more importantly would be life saving medications such as cardiac glycosides. Even without oxidative destruction there is still the risk of reaction of medications with the chlorine compounds and the thyroid suppression by the chlorine. Bottom line is that it is dangerous to fool with, especially by people who have no idea of the real chemistry involved.
It will kill pathogens. Hydrogen Peroxide is an oxidizer that your body produces on its own.
Hydrogen peroxide is an oxidizer produced by the body. But again this does not mean all oxidizers are safe. Did you know that fire is rapid oxidation? So does that mean sitting in the middle of a camp fire is healthy?
If the liver is loaded with pathogens and parasites you will never get well. MMS will eleminate them.
More sales hype!!! Look at all the evidence I presented from non-sales sites. Do you still think that all the claims that were made about the safety and effectiveness are still true?
I thought prebiotics like inulin and FOS feed the good AND bad bacteria/yeast and that we get enough "natural prebiotics" from our diet?
Yes and no. I actually addressed the claims about feeding bad bacteria here:
FOS can feed Klebsiella for example, but at the same time the acids and bactericides formed by the fiber can kill the bacteria. Therefore it is like still eating, which provides sugar for cancer cells, while killing off the cancer cells with other treatments. As long as the cells are being killed off quicker than they can grow there is not an issue.
As for feeding yeast again this is misleading. The fermentation of the fibers actually generate acids that control the growth of yeasts, and prevents Candida from converting in to its dangerous fungal form:
Which of these 4 probiotics is recommeded?
1. Custom Probiotics 11 strain powderhttp://www.customprobiotics.com/cust...-11-strain.htm
2. Custom Probiotics 5 strain capshttp://www.customprobiotics.com/cust...rmula-cp-1.htm
3. Klaire Labs 12 strain powder OR caps (these contain inulin and a "proprietary polysaccharide complex" that the company says will not feed the bad guys, but all my research says otherwise....what's the final say?)
I would go with number 3. You really want as many different strains as possible since different strains can have different properties and benefits.
Also, why is it not advisable to take Vit C with Probiotics? I never heard of this before.
The acidity of the ascorbic acid (vitamin C) can kill the probiotics.
Lastly, if MMS is not good, what do u recommend I do? It's strange how MMS was so highly regarded as the new "cure-all" not too long ago, but now many see it as detrimental instead. . .
It is called sales hype. Not the first product to be hyped up like this and it will not be the last.