Yes, indeedy, restoring and recolonizing healthy microbiota/probiotics is extremely beneficial in eradicating an overgrowth of candida. This has been explained to Teresa previously. And I definitely concur with what you explained: >>> No matter how much echinacea, antifungal herbs, etc you take you will never be able to eleminate the yeast and digestive problems <<<
However (as we can clearly see from the thousands of failures posted on CZ & the internet), addressing the issue with only probiotics (be they encapsulted --least likely to help--, or via natural sources --most likely to help--), candida issues are a bit more complex. While throwing the balance of gut-flora into a tailspin (typically by ingesting pharmaceutical antibiotics), is many times the cause for an initial imbalance, there's many people that take antibiotics (and constantly ingest probiotic destroying tap-water and other processed foods with chemicals)...that recover from the temporarily imbalance/symptoms quite rapidly (even without taking additional probiotics). So there's definitely more to this issue.
As I believe & understand, there are two other primary issues (as well as other 'less primary' ones): 1) strengthening the immune system (particularly modulating or increasing t-lymphocytes and other white blood cells to eliminate leukopenia - and echinacea has been proven many times to do this- general Google search: http://tinyurl.com/28msgqx ). And 2) ensuring the terrain of the intestinal tract is conducive to recolonization of beneficial microbiota, while eliminating the condition of the terrain that encourages (ensures?) the overgrowth.
Quickly (because this has been explained previously) - Candida are saprophytes (saprobes), which means they derive their nourishment from decaying organic matter (something that is prevalent in the intestinal tract of most people). There is tons of supportive evidence to be found, but this lil' blurb sums it up fairly completely (but leaves out the all-important aspect of lack & imbalance of beneficial intestinal microbiota).
‘It is a saprophyte of the human and animal digestive tract, which may under some conditions (antibiotherapy, diabetes) prolifer and provoke some pathological manifestations of the skin, of mucouses and of visceras.’ (Julian)
‘A yeast, Candida albicans, is the commonest fungus of medical importance. It is ubiquitous in the environment but it may also be transmitted between people directly. Candidosis is usually a superficial infection of skin, nails or mucous membrane with the yeast form of the fungus, causing mild inflammation. However, these tissues are rarely affected if they are entirely healthy. Factors that predispose to candidosis are:
Loss of integrity of skin and mucosæ
Encouragement of local multiplication of Candida
Suppression of inflammatory and immune responses
A congenital immune deficiency of T lymphocytes predisposes to the syndrome of chronic mucocutaneous candidosis, while more severe, often iatrogenic, forms of immune suppression may permit systemic infection in which mycelia, as well as yeasts, invade tissue and form micro-abscesses.’ (Edwards et al, 1995. p144)
‘Candidiasis results from infection by Candida albicans, a budding yeast-like organism that can infect the skin and the mucosa of the mouth, intestine and genital tract. Young infants, pregnant women, diabetics, people with prosthetic heart valves, patients on broad-spectrum antibiotics and people immunocompromised by drugs or disease are especially susceptible to Candida infections … Oral or genital candidiasis is often the first opportunistic infection to appear in HIV infection; if mucocutaneous candidiasis occurs in an adult patient who is neither diabetic nor taking an oral contraceptive preparation HIV infection is a likely underlying cause.’ (Forbes & Jackson, 1997. pp61-62, 98. Emphasis added)
Gascoigne (1995) points out that its appearance is associated with pregnancy, sugar intake, tight clothes, synthetic material, allergic reactions, prescribed drugs (corticosteroids, female sex hormones, immunosuppressant drugs), diabetes mellitus, AIDS and herpes simplex.
Teresa has been given a list of prebiotic foods & fibers (high in inulin) that are beneficial in helping to recolonize and rebalance gut flora (and as I mentioned, also told to ingest plenty of healthy probiotics in the form of kefirs, kombucha and fermented foods), along with utilizing garlic (also a prebiotic!) and apple cider vinegar (antifungal AND helps to ensure stomach acidity). But frustratingly for many on CZ (and Teresa may be the "poster child" for this), her financial and living situation (and physical/mental compromises) make it extremely difficult for her to do the things she needs to do to heal herself.
Hence, assumptions like this (from one of your previous posts on another forum): >>> However, there is a forum on curezone that seems to religiously follow Schulz and Christopher "teachings" yet it seems like no one really gets better. <<< are just that - assumptions (like all assumptions - typically based on a lack of information, or a predisposition for seeking/seeing only the negative. Frustratingly, it's those who can't or won't apply their knowledge that post the most and the loudest). If you'd like more positive information on how the Schulze/Christopher/Gerson protocols work when they're actually utilized properly, you'll find this thread http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1529654&s=1#i1 (that contains the following post and many other testimonies) The First 30 Days on Incurables Protocol Report BSA by Miss Helfinger to be very informative (and likely enlightening), as are many of Miss H's posts throughout the forum after her 2nd and 3rd round of the IP. She's dealt with life long adrenal compromise, asthma, allergies, anxiety, depression, weak immunity, etc. Also, if you do a search on User ID: healinginHiswings, you'll see a woman that (again) had MANY life-issues that prevented her from doing a full protocol, but still managed to stop the progression of Muscular Dystrophy AND reverse damage already sustained, in less than a few months. But of course, the hundreds of other positive progressions & healing testimonies found on this lil' forum (after only a bit more than year), don't make a dent in the 'major thousands' of major & minor healings obtained from those following the Gerson/Sculze/Christopher protocols since the 1940's.
Thanks for the "probiotic reminder"...it's one aspect of healing that can't be said enough!
Healthiest of blessings,
1) Does the store bought white garlic have any value? This is the kind I've been pretty much taking (i.e the easiest for me to find) Should I be searching out organic? Is the purple tinted one any different? Yes, commone grocery store garlic has value...just far less than a quality organic. So I'd find organic if at all possible. If not... Typically a "good" organic clove of garlic is as big as the end of your thumb (we've seen a few almost twice that big), but the common non-organics are much smaller. I just measured around the entire head (circumference) of one of ours, and it's almost 8 1/2". So, If you have to use smaller, then make sure to adjust how many you take.
2) I can take probiotic foods WHILE I'm cleansing, and not solely AFTER I have cleansed my colon right? I have read so many variations on this, and I assume since we are talking 'food based' probiotics, that I shouldn't worry. YES! DEFINITELY take all the probiotic foods & fluids/juices you can WHILE cleansing, every day! Just remember that some compromised folks need to 'work up' to bigger amounts. For example, I typically have an 'iron stomach' (and other than a couple-three years with IBS symptoms before my first good cleanse), I've been blessed to be 'gut issue free'. I can drink 8oz of Water Kefir without feeling/sensing much of anything, but with my first batch of milk kefir I had about 1/2 cup, and within 15-20 minutes actually felt some gentle cramping and lots of 'gut activity' (which I imagine would have registered on the 'pain scale' for most)...but I recognized it to be a 'goodness sensation'. The next day I had 3/4 cup and it just felt 'warm & good'. A couple of days later I'd made 6 cups of peach/banana/honey 'kefir yogurt' (and realized I couldn't find my 1 cup jars), so I put it into pints. The next day I opened one, and while eating at the 'puter "accidentally", at the whole thing. Yep, about 5 hours later I had that "emergency waddle" to the toilet happening. Amazingly, it wasn't watery diarrhea, but very soft 'curds' (but LOTS of them).
Most sites I've read suggest starting in FAR lower quantities. And I've seen a few sites that say the store-bought milk-kefir is not something you want to depend on (in tests, there's hardly any "alive" microbiota). Making your own (organic raw milk is best) IS best.
Thanks so much! I think we all have our 'candida fill' for tonight, lol;) Filler 'er up :) There's no such thing as too much knowledge - I keep learning more & more every day (I'm diggin' in deep to 'dirty electricity' & EMFs every spare minute).
>>>>I am familiar with Christopher Schulz methods. Although, not as much as others here. I started off on the Christopher methods to help with my digestive issues but quickly found trying to kill something with anti-microbial herbs were temporary at best.
Like I said above, I am familiar with Schulz/Christopher.. but don't ever recall reading anything about them talking about the benefits of fermented foods.<<<<
Perhaps you'll be surprised to learn that Dr. Christopher did teach about the need for healthy/balanced intestinal flora - below are some quotes from his publications (although not all can be attritubuted to him directly)
...(regarding carrots): "...They constitute a powerful cleansing food. A large amount of carrot carbohydrate is one of the most effective means of changing the intestinal flora from a putrefactive to a non-putrefactive type."
From his Woman's Herbal: These vitamins are present in whole grains, brewer's yeast, and seaweeds. Your body will manufacture its own B-vitamins as it needs them if you maintain a proper intestinal flora, which is done by taking sauerkraut, yogurt, acidophilus culture, or rejuvelac
God engineered breastmilk to satisfy the needs of your infant. He also supplied immunity to disease through the antibodies from the immune system of the mother. It establishes appropriate intestinal flora, which can be a benefit throughout the child's life.
Your intestinal flora may need replacing, which can also cause imbalance in the system. However, taking yogurt probably will not do the job, because most yogurt consists of only one strain of bacteria which, while useful, might not be the one that you need. A multi-strain acidophilus is better. Even cheaper than that is Rejuvelac, which is made by soaking one cup of wheat--previously washed--for forty-eight hours in three cups of water. Use the same seed to make a second and third batch, not rinsing the seed in between. These batches need soak only twenty-four hours. This Rejuvelac, as you can see, is really cheap, and yet provides the ferments which can help restore proper intestinal flora.
From a discussion on kelp & seaweeds: Dr. Black said there may be present in the intestinal tracts of the Japanese people a specialized bacterial flora, giving the seaweeds a greater nutritional value. The bacterial flora are the beneficial bacteria which live in the intestines and manufacture certain vitamins there, as well as helping in the digestion of food. Dr. Black says that in digestibility tests with cattle it has been found that when seaweed is first introduced into the diet, it is completely undigested and appears unaltered in the feces. After a few days, however, no seaweed is found in the feces. So it seems that the bacteria in the intestines have an important part in the digestion of seaweed. In Japan it appears that children develop the proper intestinal bacteria since they are fed seaweed products since infancy (RodC:710).
That's all I can find quickly regarding Dr. Christopher (from a CD I have - and that was just once through, searching only on the word "flora") - frustratingly, there's no CD compilation of Schulzes publications for me 'search fast' so you could see all his references. But in the Save Your Life manual (again, I only had time to search on the word 'flora'), Dr. Schulze says: What is amazing is that, at the same time, garlic actually enhances our friendly bacteria and improves ourintestinal flora and digestion ...which of course, we know is true because garlic is ultra-high in inulin (prebiotic) and it's actually used in some countries to replenish gut flora (I think the study I saw was from India).
Of course you likely know that both Christopher/Schulze were "huge" on Slippery Elm (another prebiotic) - and that's somethine we always include (recommended daily).
And just like Christopher 'upgraded' the works/protocols of his mentors (to keep up with the more modern challenges), Schulze did the same to Christopher's. And now on this forum, we're doing our best to 'upgrade & enhance' to adjust the protocols effectively for the higher and more severe candida issues (that they didn't see at the levels we do now, due the increase in antibiotic usage and the incredible amounts of irradiation and life-destroying pesticides, gmos, and fluoride in/on all our food & water).
>>>And this is feremented vegetables, not packed capsuled probiotics. Which would address a lot of the underlying immune deficiencies.<<< Of course! Natural probiotics are much more effective (not to mention being virtually free of millions/billions of 'dead cells' that throw the body yet another curveball). And of course, healthy gut flora is strongly correlated with a healthy immune system!
>>>Perhaps implied, perhaps not.. I believe the fermented vegetables would clear up at least 80% of Teresa's digestive problems, thus improving the efficacy of the rest of the things she is doing to restore her health.<<< I agree 100%. I'm sure she'd appreciate all the tips you have for how to effectively afford what she has limited money to buy or transportation to 'get there to buy it' (when non-pasteurized fermented foods are so difficult to find, and pricey when they are), and/or how she could make and ferment her own while living in a home/house that's not her own (where the owning inhabitants are extremely, let's just say "limiting"). In many ways she's a MUCH more "valiant warrior" than her posts cause her to appear.
>>>Teresa may have physical limitations, but she is not mentally challenged. My post on the schulz/christopher teaching was more along the lines I think people get pulled into their charisma and lose sight of the forest among the trees.<<< I agree 100% (that she is not mentally challenged). Teresa is FAR too experienced and much too intelligent to get "pulled into their charisma" or lose sight of anything. Although some people DO get 'pulled into their charisma' just the same as people can be 'blinded by science'.
I've never heard of "hot yoga", I'll have to check that out! Hyperthermia/inducing a fever is HUGE for assisting/bolstering the immune system (that's something that's done weekly on the IP).
Howdy folks -
There's a bit of questionable information and definitely some misinformation in the post above (pasted below). Somethings we all need to keep in mind: 1) is that everything we read isn't true (even when it comes from "alternative medicine") 2) Uny-me does have to 'police the forum' to reduce/eliminate misinformation to make sure that people aren't hurt by it (and this reduces the time I can spend answering posts). So y'all can be assured, this is not something I "like" to do :(
I just want to share my own experience with probiotics. Sharing experiences is always a good thing!
Probiotics are of course vital to introduce at some point Actually, introducing healthy & natural (necessary) microbiota into the intestinal tract is something that is always "vital". As whether or not the conditions are right for them to recolonize...well, they always assist in helping the conditions TO be right to for them to recolonize (although they need all the help we can give them, for sure).
while doing some cleansing that will also temporary kill the beneficial flora. To my knowledge, there's no aspect of the cleansing protocols we use here than will 'temporarily kill' beneficial flora. Salt water flushes and taking Epsom Salts definitely (harshly) 'flushes out' many organisms, but we don't use those. It's possible that some of the parasite/herbs kill microorganisms - but there are many variables at play there (and we should all be ingesting fermented foods/juices and kefirs, etc., to keep everything as balanced as possible).
But I would say, be VERY careful when you introduce them. Choose the right moment. The "right moment" for ensuring that our intestinal tract has the beneficial microorganisms that our entire body is dependant upon it having...?...is always "now". Yes, sometimes we need to introduce them slowly so we don't cause 'symptoms'.
Too early can have devastated consequences on someone. I disagree virtually 100%, giving our body something it lacks (it the form that is natural to the body), does not produce "devastating consequences". Introducing them too quickly can cause cramping and diarrhea, but that's not a devastating consequence - it's just an expected side-effect of 'going to fast'.
With a leaky gut (which all people have if they have any degree of sickness) and very compromised organs of detoxification (liver, kidneys)... I disagree 100% - not everyone that has 'some degree of sickness' has leaky gut!!! How in the world do people come up with ridiculous generalizations like that?
the result can be dramatic: most of the bacteria, even "healthy", will leak through that gut and invade the bloodstream, giving a even harder time to the organs. It is "said" that in leaky gut, bacteria can leak into the bloodstream...but that (of course) depends upon the size of the 'holes' and the size of the bacteria. The slippery elm & marshmallow in the IF#2 help to reduce inflamtion AND permeability (with the mucilage they produce).
The main reason for leaky gut is the imbalance of microbiota, so restoring them is KEY to healing leaky gut.
Your statement that "most of bacteria...will leak through that gut" is totally incorrect. We have several POUNDS of bacteria in our digestive tract - if "most" leaked through, we'd be dead!
Many people see temporary bad reactions to probiotics as "die off", but it is often mistaken for the fact that the blood gets even more poisoned by bacteria. Poisoned by the beneficial flora? I'd like to see some evidence of this. "These bacteria help repair the intestinal wall and have been shown in numerous studies to reduce inflammation and repair leaky gut" And you are stating "as if it were a fact" that ingesting beneficial microorganisms in their natural form can poison our blood (causing adverse symptoms or harm). I've never heard of this - so please post valid information that shows/lists the various types of beneficial flora that have been shown to enter the bloodstream due to leaky gut and what the adverse effects are. Until that information is provided and examined, I ask you to please stop posting about 'leaky gut issues', because so far, the majority of the information you've posted seems incorrect to me.
Of course, as some probiotics have also some anti bacterial effects, it could make things worth at first and then rebalance and help the whole body functionning better with a healthier flora, but it is very unlikely to happen to a very sick person (with a very bad case of leaky gut). If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that in someone with a very bad case of leaky gut, replenishing the gut flora is unlikely to rebalance the flora (and it will make things worse). Again, evidence please. I'm always MORE than happy to learn and 'stand corrected' (especially when learning replaces incorrect information with truth).
So, my advice would be, if you're not too sick, introduce them while you're cleansing it could be just fine. If you're quite or very sick, WAIT for the stage that you've cleansed your organs of detoxification very well, and introduce L-glutamine or drink/eak a lot of cabbage juice (which is why cabbage is said to be very beneficial to the gut) to nourish the enterocytes of the gut and make them tighten first. Then the probiotics will be able to establish itself. Kcirla, I think you know we don't suggest/use isolated supplements like L-glutamine on this forum. Yes, cabbage, cabbage juice & sauerkraut/juice are very beneficial, for many different reasons.
That's probably why sauerkraut is the best probiotic food I think, you've got the glutamine and the probiotics all at once. I believe a blend of various foods & liquids is best. And the salt in sauerkraut can easily induce diarrhea. And of course, inducing diarrhea in someone with leaky gut is never a goodness.
Kcirla (and everyone) - I appreciate people reaching out to help each other here (and I know "intentions are good"). But the fact remains, that incorrect information has great potential to cause harm, and we're not helping anybody if we cause harm.