Expand 20 messages, 1 to 20 of 63 
moreless
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- Expand 20 messages, 21 to 40 of 63 ketkev
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Re: --Reasonable now-- ketkev
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This is a reply to # 1,225,695I wasn't trying to force anything on you moreless. I just saw an initial statement you made that I wanted to address and then you made comments to my initial post and asked questions and then I made comments and answered your questions and so forth it went. That's all.- Re: --Reasonable now-- refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,225,738One problem is that on this forum most people read just the new posts and expect everything to be defined in exact, perfect wording. The posts would be too long if ML constantly expressed every spiritual concept with each and every teaching on health.
That is why everyone is expected to read and read and read. I'm not going to say that this whole thread of discussion has been a waste of time but it could have been under different cirumstances.
But this statement is what got the ball rolling:
"For the "Beginning" and the "End" of "ALL" Life in the Universe is
controlled by the Acid Alkaline pH Balancing Principles !!!!!!!!!"
This is not a wrong statement, it was just a wrong assumption by you because you did not do your homework. That is one of the reasons I worry you are not doing this protocol right. You have not read enough to even know that ML believes that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega.
I really wish you would put aside any more assumptions and just let God bless you and your wife with better health before this thread does cause harm because others are not being helped.
- Re: --Reasonable now-- ketkev
16 y
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This is a reply to # 1,225,914Refreshed as you challenged me to do my homework in studying Moreless's protocol, I challenge you to do a study of Romans in the bible. Don't just quickly read it. Do an intense study, and I think you will find that Moreless lacks the understanding of the grace and mercy of Christ, and that he makes everything about the law, which is a grand mistake. Find out for yourself with an intense study of Romans.
This is a great scriipture for us that are striving towards physical health in this life to remember. It is good to take care of the body and it is profitable, but those pursuits are limited. Pursuing Christ is never limited, and it is forever profitable. I believe it is good to do both, with a far greater emphasis on the later. From all I have read from you Refreshed, I don't doubt you would completely agree with me on this.
1 Timothy 4:8
For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.- --Law vs Grace--Clarification moreless
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This is a reply to # 1,226,163Hi ketkev,
Your comment: I think you will find that Moreless lacks the understanding of the grace and mercy of Christ, and that he makes everything about the law, which is a grand mistake.
Answer: It is Sad, but many "Past" Religious Fanatics have made the same comments, Lacking in Understanding of my view points because of either not reviewing my past posts or not being interested in hearing what I am saying?
Clarification once again: Our body is a Physical Body subject to the Physical Laws that Govern the Universe, which God established from the beginning !
Mankind has choices to make, Good or Bad, which Result in Blessings or Cursings !
Grace may "Only" overide a Physical Curse, if one does not know the "Truth" for the Physical Curse, but has found Faith in God and God allows for this Physical Forgiveness !
"But" when one learns that what they have been doing is the Cause for the Physical Curse, then one is "NO" longer able to Hide under the Gift of Grace and shall "NOT" be given a get out of Jail Free card anymore, but shall then pay the Physical penalty for their Physical Sin !
God's Physical Laws, which may be the Acid/Alkaline pH Balancing Principles, which Govern the Entire Universe, have rule over "ALL" which is Physical !
Because mankind is still in the Physical Flesh, there is "NO" way mankind may avoid the Physical Laws of God concerning his Physical body !
The Sicker and more Diseased a person becomes may also make it much Harder to be a True Spiritual person in Mind and Thought, because this person is going to be too Acidic and in Pain and Suffering, which is going to make this person Hard to Live with !
It is by God's Grace and Mercy that he has given "US" choices to make, which will lead "US" to Blessings should "WE" choose to walk this path, but if "WE" "Fail" to choose to walk the path of the Fruits of the Spirit, and instead choose to walk in the paths of Works of the Flesh, then "WE" shall receive the Cursings "Due" "US" for this Poor choice !
Our Breaking of the Physical Laws, which God has established may not prevent "US" from entering into Gods Kingdom, if our Spiritual Life is in order, but may get "US" in the Grave Faster !
It is much easier to be in Good Spiritual Tone when one is not Sick and Diseased with Pain and Suffering !
One is able to Naturally be Kind to others around "US" when "WE" are "NOT" in Pain and Suffering !
As I have mentioned before, if one is not "willing" to change from Bad Eating habits because of the Pain and Suffering it shall bring about, then How can this person Claim to be Spiritual, when they cannot even Feel the Spiritual?
Cause and Effect !
Thus Gods Laws are still in effect and his offer of Grace is available to any whom are willing to Change from their Works of the Flesh and Seek to walk in the Fruits of the Spirit, of which there is "NO" Law against !
Cause and Effect !
"WE" are What "WE" Eat, because "WE" still Live in a Physical body !
Smile Tis your choice.
- I'm not sure you can say it any plai... refreshed
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- Re: --Law vs Grace--Clarification ketkev
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This is a reply to # 1,226,198God's grace is a free gift. We do not have to change anything to receive it. Nor do we have to do anything to keep it. But as a result of this free gift, we fall in love with the Lord, and his love for us and our love for him brings wonderful change in our life. Your posts to me still confirms that you do not understand God's grace according to the bible. Like I said to Refreshed, Romans is a good place to start to understand these things. But, it is by God's grace that anyone can even understand his grace, and he decides the timing of this. Again, the scriipture I have quoted many times,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Rom. 9:15-16).
God's mercy does not depend on the will of man or man's exertion. These are the clear words of the bible.
Your idea that physical sickness will make it harder for a person to be spiritual is totally unbiblical as well. The apostle Paul said his afflictions made him strong in Christ.
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
"And He said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong."
What do you say about this scriipture Moreless?
I have seen many times dying Christians or Christians with severe illnesses be incredibly strong in their walk with Christ.
I have also seen as you describe, people who become bitter and mean and hard to live with because of their illness or their dying state. What those people need, is the grace of God.
The people who suffer well and claim Christ as their Lord, show evidence that they have his grace by their ability to suffer well. His grace gives them that ability.
I believe a person is fully justified in claiming righteousness and spirituality in Christ even if they don't have all their physical problems worked out because righteousness and spiritually do not come from the flesh, but from God.- --answer--Law vs Grace--Clarificatio... moreless
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,226,280Hi ketkev,
Important part of your comment: and our love for him brings wonderful change in our life.
Answer: This very quote kinda speaks for it's self !
"WE" "Must" make Change from our old ways of "Works of the Flesh" to the "Fruits of the Spirit", thus something is "Required" of mankind for this Grace to take Effect !
AMEN !
Cause and Effect !
"WE" are What "WE" Eat !
Smile Tis your choice.
- Re: --answer--Law vs Grace--Clarific... ketkev
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,226,370The problem is the use of "we" and "I". I can do nothing! God does it all! We are just vessels to be used by him. When we focus on ourselves we loose this view. Once again I think an honest study on the Sovereignty of God, and the law would benefit you. Read again of why God raised up Pharaoh in romans 9, heck just read Romans 9, Just read Romans. Also Martin Luther's commentary on Romans is phenomenal
- --Personal Responsibility-- moreless
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This is a reply to # 1,226,385Hi ketkev,
Your comment: The problem is the use of "we" and "I". I can do nothing! God does it all! We are just vessels to be used by him.
Answer: You must be another one of those folks who thinks God is going to change your Diapers and put your clothes on you and shine your shoes also?
Have you forgot about Personal Responsibility "WE" each have to care for this Physical Temple God has given us as "WE" Live out our Life in the Flesh?
Cause and Effect !
As I have said before, if you and your wife like the Pain and Suffering from being Sick and Diseased, this is your choice, just continue to refuse to learn "WHY" you are still having the problems facing each of you and continue to refuse to make the needed changes to help yourself !
God has given you choices to make, if you are Un-willing to make the Correct choices, then so be it !
Smile Tis your choice.- Re: --Personal Responsibility-- ketkev
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This is a reply to # 1,226,449
If you were able to read Romans or Galations without your blinders on, you would see how far "WE" or "I" go. But in your current frame of mind, I do not think you could handle that.
Understanding that everything depends on God's grace and mercy brings great humiliation to us, and shows us we are nothing, and the flesh doesn't like that. But to understand this truth (that everything we are able to BE and DO depends on Christ) sets us free and brings us to rest in the fullness of Christ, which in turn empowers us to be able to do all that he has called us to do.
So it is not that I beleive we sit around and do nothing, but rather we must realize where our ability to do anything comes from. All praise and glory go to Christ. Without him we are nothing, and can do nothing. He sustains everything and everyone that exists at every moment. He does not sit back and see if we will sustain ourselves and make all the right choices. We would not exist if he did that, because we are fully dependent on him.
If a person finds himself in a needful state, in trouble in whatever way, if his desperation drives him to call on Christ, then his trouble was indeed a huge blessing. I beleive one of the reasons we often have trouble in this world, even as Christians, is because God knows we are prone to stray, and our troubles teach us our constant need for him.
Refreshed if your still reading this thread, here is another great song, one of my favorites:
"You're my God"
Looking back I'm in awe of your faithfulness
Undeserving so unworthy still my life you've blessed
You cover me with your righteousness
You've named me as your own
O God it is your unfailing love
That keeps me here when I want to run
O God this earth has nothing for me
So please keep me right here at your feet
You're my God
What could I give
To the one who has set me free
Your so deserving and so worthy of all of me
My heart is more than willing my flesh is still so weak
Chorus
Prone to wonder Lord I feel it
Prone to leave the God I love
Here's my heart Lord take and seal it
Seal it for thy courts aboveIf we are connected to Christ, we will indeed be working for the glory of his coming kingdom, but still all praise goes to him. It is a privelege we have, a blessing, if we are able by his grace to be a servant of him and each other.
- Re: --Personal Responsibility-- refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,226,546Thanks Ketkev,
It only takes a spark to get a fire going,
And soon all those around can warm up in its glowing;
That's how it is with God's love,
once you've experienced it:
You spread His love to everyone,
you want to pass it on.
What a wondrous time is spring
when all the trees are budding,
The birds begin to sing,
the flowers start their blooming;
That's how it is with God's love,
once you've experienced it:
You want to sing,
it's fresh like spring,
you want to pass it on.
I wish for you, my friend,
this happiness that I've found
You can depend on Him,
it matters not where you're bound;
I'll shout it from the mountain top,
I want my world to know:
The Lord of love has come to me,
I want to pass it on.
**************************************
"Wilt thou be made whole?"....Jesus
- Re: --Personal Responsibility-- ketkev
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- Re: --Personal Responsibility-- ketkev
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- --Correction--Personal Responsibilit... moreless
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This is a reply to # 1,226,546Hi ketkev,
Your comment: Understanding that everything depends on God's grace and mercy
Correction: Physical Cursings do not depend upon God's Grace and Mercy but upon "mankinds" Poor choices which Cause "Failure" because of Gods Laws governing the Universe !
Cause and Effect !
Smile Tis your choice.- Re: --Correction--Personal Responsib... ketkev
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This is a reply to # 1,226,560Now who is nitpicking? :)
Yes you are right, physical cursings do not depend on the mercy and grace of God. Adam and Eve brought misery and cursings on themselves by their bad choices. And then every human being that ever lived after that did the same, except Jesus Christ.
But to be delivered from physical cursings does depend on the mercy and grace of God.
God does not owe us anything, but we are forever indebted to him. He doesn't owe us rewards for good choices, but by his grace and mercy he enables us to make good choices and then by his grace and mercy he often rewards us for those good choices.
The point is if we find ourselves blessed in anyway, we can know that it is by the grace and mercy of God.- Re: --Correction--Personal Responsib... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,226,623Ketkev: "But to be delivered from physical cursings does depend on the mercy and grace of God."
So you are telling me that if you learned how to fix your mistakes that you made health wise, that you must wait on God to decide whether to heal you or not? To me, when God brought me here and taught me to understand how to fix my health problems, that was His way of showing me His Mercy and Grace. If I was to ignore this info, it would be like ignoring God's direction for my life.
I still think you are trying to tell me that you have tried this protocol for your wife and it didn't work, so it must be God's will, she stay sick (for now) I say lets prove you right or wrong by getting to the meat of the problem and see if your protocol needs correcting. Let's see if your Faith matches your obedience.
Ketkev: "God does not owe us anything, but we are forever indebted to him. He doesn't owe us rewards for good choices, but by his grace and mercy he enables us to make good choices and then by his grace and mercy he often rewards us for those good choices."
Jesus paid the debt for me. I chose Him like a woman chooses a husband. He wooed me with His love and I accepted Him and I cleave to Him like any good wife does. I chose to love Him because He loved me first. He paid the price for the slaverly of sin I was in and in my graditude and love, I wish to please Him in all the things that I do. We made promises together, to love and cherish. No loving husband wants his wife to be ill.
Here lies our difference in doctrine.- Re: --Correction--Personal Responsib... ketkev
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This is a reply to # 1,226,696
You are correct in the differnce in doctrine. because nowhere in the bible does it say that God woos us to him. On the contrary it says we are forcibly compelled or dragged to him. This is not a choice, this is Gods ordination. I can only go by what scriipture says. Whether I like it or not.
He chose us before the foundation of the world. HE CHOSE US. Not us choosing him. once again it is all God and none of my own ability.
A few verses
Revelation 13
8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slainOur names were written before the foundation of the world. He chose us.
Eph 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love5he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his willRomans 8
28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,for those who are called according to his purpose.29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Galatians 1
15But when he who had set me apart before I was born,and who called me by his grace,
He ordained all of your days
Psalm 139
16Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.Isaiah 49
1Listen to me, you islands;
hear this, you distant nations:
Before I was born the LORD called me;
from my birth he has made mention of my name.2 Thess 2
13But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth
2 Tim 1:9
who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
john 6:44
44No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
the word draws here in the geek is Helkuo which is translated as forcibly compelled or dragged. so no man can come unless the spirit draggs or forcibly compels him once again not a choice.
This is where I live that everything even my salvation is all God and none me.
To respond to the rest I would like to say thanks for your support. I have enjoyed reading your posts. I wanted to show you where I am coming from by posting that above. My wife has tried everything but the refractometer. It is impracticle and makes no sense to me to say that sugar content tells you if your food is good or not. We buy the best food available for her. No refractometer is going to have me believe that food grown organicaly with no pesticides in impecable soil can be shown to be worse than conventional from krogers because of sugar content. There is more in food than sugar. And where we live the soiI is freakin awesome, I do not need a refractometer to show me that. So yes everything but the device used to measure sugar content has been followed.
I know all of moreless post will now focus on WHY HAVE YOU NOT BOUGHT A REFRACTOMETER. The answer is all of the research I have done on Brix is rediculous to me. It rediculous from a common sense and science standpoint.
- Re: --Correction--Personal Responsib... 2Sirius
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This is a reply to # 1,226,740I don't understand why Moreless hasnt booted you kevmed! Your posts are nonsensical your attitude is that of a troll your life sounds completely miserable and I feel sorry for those around you! But I guess Moreless likes this bantering especially since he is so much better at it then you are he lets you stay and make a complete fool of yourself! At least you admit you are not intelligent enough to understand the simple concept of Brix!
- Re-Personal Responsibility-- #102615
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This is a reply to # 1,226,756This interests me,
This is a sirius question:
Do you think that personal responsibility is difficult to "extract" when there is only a number or username attached to apost?
Or put in the now and positive- do you think if everyone used their street name, their married name ect they would post in the way they do now?
Also do you think the ability to use several different numbers, usernames, etc etc concurrently encourages a lack of personal responsibility? Or even a "right" to act anti socially and personally irresponsible?
If anything you are fully self expressed and perhaps even honest....
???
- Re-Personal Responsibility-- #102615
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- Re: --Correction--Personal Responsib... refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,226,740I agree God chose us from the beginning. When you fell in love with your wife for the first time...you chose her in your heart. scriipture tells us that God loved us first. Your wife made the choice to love you back...you may not have had the same results if you forced her against her will.
As far as not "believing" whether a refractometer makes any difference in giving you the proof you need. I can only say, that using one and taking note of high or low brix and then making note of the difference you feel as you experiment with them is the only way your lack of faith in what I say or Ml says or anyone else will convince you. Perhaps God will give you a dream about this subject and then you may reconsider. The fact that you choose to not try tells me something about you. You want God to handle everything as though you have no responsibilies at all. It's like you are looking for heavenly welfare.
My husband is head of our household. He guides me and I listen but he does expect me to participate in our marriage. I have a part to play in this thing we call life.
Listen, I have enjoyed our discussion and praising God with song very much. We are both believers and even if we disagree on some things, we both love the Lord. How you choose to lead your families life on this earth is your business. If you want help with physical healing, God can either heal you instantly or can point you in a direction to find it. I wish you the best.
- Re: --Correction--Personal Responsib... 2Sirius
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- Re: --Correction--Personal Responsib... ketkev
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- Re: --Correction--Personal Responsib... refreshed
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- Re: --Correction--Personal Responsib... ketkev
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- Re: --Personal Responsibility-- refreshed
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- Re: --Personal Responsibility-- ketkev
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- --Personal Responsibility-- moreless
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- Re: --answer--Law vs Grace--Clarific... ketkev
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- --answer--Law vs Grace--Clarificatio... moreless
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- I'm not sure you can say it any plai... refreshed
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- --Law vs Grace--Clarification moreless
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- Re: --Reasonable now-- ketkev
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- Re: --Reasonable now-- refreshed
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- Re: --Self evident--Edited refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,224,866The truth is we can worship together...here...right now and still give Glory to God. Even if there are a few things you may not agree with, God knows what truths you hold within yourself when you worship.
Don't think for 2 seconds that every person at your church believes the exact way you do. You may not even know what they think unless you get into deep discussion during bible study or sunday school but you still worship within the same building.
Speaking of building. As I'm sure you know a church is not a building. It is a meeting place where the "church" comes together. Even though we use our gifts within the church together, we also use them seperate and go out into the world to do God's will.
I really think if you could stick around, read and learn you will find that you may be in more agreement than not. After all we agree on the most important part of all...don't we? :) Here is your song. Let's Praise God!!
Standing on the promises of Christ my King,
Through eternal ages let His praises ring!
Glory in the highest I will shout and sing
Standing on the promises of God.
Standing on the promises that can not fail
When the howling storms of doubt and fear assail;
By the living word of God I shall prevail
Standing on the promises of God.
Standing on the promises of Christ the Lord,
Bound to Him eternally by love's strong cord,
Overcoming daily with the Spirit's sword
Standing on the promises of God.
Standing on the promises I can not fall,
Listening every moment to the Spirit's call.
Resting in my Savior as my all in all
Standing on the promises of God.
Ketkev, I hope you understand ML is not saying to not stand on the promises of God. He is just saying there is a right way and a wrong way to do things in this world. If we choose the wrong way, there will be pain and suffering. Even in our ignorance we sometimes choose the wrong things and we pay the price. But if we pay attention and learn from our mistakes, or better yet ask God to open a door of understanding to us, we can choose the right way of doing things and be blessed while here on earth.
You may be here to learn a better way to heal...God does provide for us. He holds healing in His hands and it takes a step of faith to believe that.
Just like you learned from the bible and the Holy Spirit that there were spiritual laws, you will also find that God made physical laws here on earth to be obeyed (not unto salvation) but for balance in our physical lives. Nothing done here takes away from God's sovereignty. He is God...In His wonderful wisdom, He made the rules...His will is done. We don't have anything to do with that...we just praise Him and praise Him for the truths He has allowed us to understand.
- Re: --Self evident--Edited ketkev
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This is a reply to # 1,224,961There is truth in this forum it is just mixed in with bad theology. My wife has done lots of the things discussed on this forum. I just rtake issue to anytime "I or ME" is used in this forum because when those words are spoken then the focus is taken off of Christ.
My wife will kill me because she says I am too technical at times but this quote in regards to scriipture sums it up perfectly.
Martin Luther (Not martin Luther King Jr., but the 16th century Monk and church reformer) once said:
“Christ is the Master; the scriiptures are only the servant. The true way to test all the Books is to see whether they work the will of Christ or not. No Book which does not preach Christ can be apostolic, though Peter or Paul were its author. And no Book which does preach Christ can fail to be apostolic, although Judas, Ananias, Pilate, or Herod were its author.”
Even Luther, Zwingley, Huss, Knox and many other of the church reformers understood that if it does not focus on Christ then it is useless.
The only reason I referenced the people above is because unless you are catholic then these people are responsible for bringing about the change so that protestant/eveangelical churches could exist. Alas the theology of Moreless has lost message of the early church. I am out I have to work. I can pick this up tonight- Re: --Self evident--Edited ketkev
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This is a reply to # 1,225,005I forgot to say thanks Refreshed for finding the Standing on the Promises of God song!
- Re: --Self evident--Edited refreshed
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This is a reply to # 1,225,133You are very welcome. I enjoy doing that anytime.
I hope you will let ML guide you with this protocol. Sometimes people only think they are doing it right. It takes a while to really sink in because much of ML's posts are broken up and it can be hard to put the puzzle pieces together.
Evan Luke is so wonderful to try and pull all of it together for us. His kindness shows the love he has for mankind and God. He is using the gifts God gave him and he is putting it to good use and so are many of the people here. This is church....even if you don't recognise it. :)
- Re: --Self evident--Edited refreshed
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- Re: --Self evident--Edited ketkev
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- Re: --Self evident--Edited
