the thorn theory - a copy/pasta salad
i am posting this here to get it out of the muck and mire below to respond to it.
right off i can see a universal problem. people like to cherry pick verses for purposes of "proving" a point, context be damned. this can be done but i find it only works with universal principles, which usually have more than one reference if they are truly important and universal. lists like thas can be made but the meaning in the context of the list must be congruent with the context in scripture or the bible as a whole or both. that can take a little time to check. iow the scripture can be divided but it must be done correctly, according to the spirit of truth.
usually these things fail because they are trying to prove a fallacy. i found a long time ago that scripture doesnt work well that way. its not there to tell you how right you are. its purpose to correct you and show you how wrong you are.
there are some truths that the bible doesnt outright state but is inferred and implied due to the parameters set forth in the text. a list like this doesnt do much good in these instances. in fact, there are some things that just have to be revealed. they arent in the bible. in fact, correctly understanding the bible is exactly like that. revelation is how jesus builds his church. and revelation doesnt take place unless a person has proved themselves worthy. that is why i posted isaiah 53. that is the kind of person the lord reveals himself to. in fact, who jesus is qualifies as one of those revealed things.
Matthew 16:16-18Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
there you have the revelation from the father and jesus affirming that it is upon that rock of revelation that he will build his church. pretty plain and simple once the whole meaning is "revealed". paul saw this too, and no way did he seek doctrines of men to taint his newfound relationship with the saviour.
to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
this is basic stuff, people. milk, not meat. its not that hard to understand, once you can see it.
so, along with reposting this in order to reply to, thats my first take on it.
another thing i will do here is look at the conclusion:
"Therefore, by considering the primary definitions of God, and seeing that Jesus fits every one of those definitions, Jesus must be eternal God."
because that is what the rest of this supposedly proves. knowing what i know, i dont see how. there is one creator, god the father. the rest of it about a trinity just seems like man playing with things and making them more complicated than they are. you have a father. you have a son. the son is in every way like the father. sounds legit to me. the son is the father? not so legit. not without a lot of splainin, lucy.
for your (possible) edification and in its entirety, the thorn theory:
1-He (Jesus) is self-existent (John 1:1–4; 14:6); only God is self-existent (Psalm 90:2).
2-Jesus defines Himself as eternal. “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).
3-He is, and has, eternal life (1 John 5:11, 12, 20).
4-He is all-powerful (Revelation 1:8).
5-He created all things (John 1:3). “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). “For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him” (Colossians 1:16 NKJV).
6-The Father even calls Jesus God. “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom” (Hebrews 1:8).
7-Jesus is able to forgive sin (Luke 5:20, 21); The Bible says only God can forgive sin (Isaiah 43:25).
8-Jesus accepted worship that according to the Ten Commandments is reserved only for the Almighty (Matthew 14:33). “And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, ‘All hail.’ And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him” (Matthew 28:9). Upon seeing the risen Savior, the converted skeptic, Thomas, confessed, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:26–29).
9-Even the angels worship Jesus. “And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him” (Hebrews 1:6).
10-The Scriptures also teach that only God knows the thoughts of a man’s heart (1 Kings 8:39). Yet Jesus consistently knew what people were thinking, “for he knew what was in man” (John 2:25). “Nathanael said to Him, ‘How do You know me?’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you’” (John 1:48 NKJV).
11-Through the Spirit, Jesus is omnipresent. “Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matthew 28:20 NKJV). “For I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city” (Acts 18:10 NKJV).
12-He has power to give life, and even resurrected Himself. “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again” (John 10:18). “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live” (John 11:25).
Therefore, by considering the primary definitions of God, and seeing that Jesus fits every one of those definitions, Jesus must be eternal God.