i have no real position on this matter, other than keeping an open mind and looking at the real world for evidence.
recently one of the forum owners on curezone wrote a long post about how terrible meat is and how it clogs your organs and such. i admit to reading this person's forum frequently but they are getting more and more imbalanced and irrational in their views imo. furthermore i am alarmed at the level of blatant censorship that goes on there. (there was a recent posting where ONLY positive experiences were allowed to be posted)
the long rant against meat and animal is so easily refuted (even by this person's own criteria) i thought i would just post a reminder here.
i'm sure everyone here knows about mark sisson. as they say a picture is worth a thousand words so...
dr schulze to me looks like a bloated pig compared to mark sisson. so while people can rant and rave all day long about the million reasons not to eat meat or for that matter not to do this or that, it is important to keep things simple and just look at the evidence of a man nearly 60 who could woop ass all over the preachy people.
there are many examples on his site of such people who are incredibly fit and healthy eating meat and saturated animal fats.
this is not a condemnation of vegetarianism or veganism; i try to keep an open mind.
recently this same person has gone into new territory and claimed also that people really are not fundamentally different. while in theory this sounds sort of viable, all you have to do is look to reality to know that one man's meat is another's poison. likely mark sisson would wither and die eating soaked grains and the forum owner who is espousing their ideas would balloon eating mark's daily fare of saturated animal fats.
i would also like to encourage people to be more discerning on this site and ask people who have established themselves as authority figures to put up or shut up. a guy like mark sisson puts himself out there, literally. he does not hide behind excuses for not revealing his identity and he has the goods and results to prove his theories.
i see a lot of forum owners here and so called authority figures preaching from high atop their mountains and at the end of the day how do we even know that they have the most rudimentary elements of good health, or that they themselves are not obese or can't run a few miles.
there was a post on that same forum from a very nice lady who frequently posts and i was sort of shocked when she said that she walked a few miles a day and realized that she felt really good doing so. one would think that after hundreds upon hundreds of posts about how to tincture x herb and the exact way to crinkle a lettuce leaf, that she could run a few marathons and then go to work the next day after not sleeping.
so just a word to the wise, please be very cautious in who you put your trust and make sure your leaders are capable of actually leading you to good health and not just dogmatic noodling.
interestingly that same forum owner has vehemently battled with another forum owner about certain health topics. the way i see it, both of them have their fair share of people really lagging in their healing progress. so i would say to these forum owners, spend less time arguing about who is right and devote that energy into helping the people on your forum who are in need of it.
and most importantly...
please have the humility to realize that your dogma is not necessarily correct and that you may be really hurting your followers by keeping them in your court. if someone has been on your forum for a year or more and is not progressing, send them to a different place. have the perspective and kindness to put the people who need help above your own need for egotistical gratification or validation that your way is the only way.
Not to mention that raw liver was part of the Gerson protocol before the daughter changed things - I believe now they use liver tablets... raw milk was used in hospitals to rehab and **build** up sick people well into the 1930's... along with daily sun.
Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez a holistic Dr. who treats cancer patients also uses raw liver.
Part of the problem with CZ is, especially for new people, that they believe any forum where they end up on.
Happened to me too after 3 months I made up my mind to follow one and keep reading.
I went through the vegetarian etc stages till after 2 years
found out that all the fruit and grain was not good for me and I went back to meat (grassfed, organic).
Now my views for myself are based on at least 15 forums.
I have never seen a forum that was perfect for me, there are always things I don't agree with.
Of course you learn from experience and it is difficult to
tell people that every day they should read some other forums too.
What also helps reading the debates too and see what the Q are. Plus when you have a problem put it in the searchbox and click on ALL FORUMS so you get to know other forums.
well you are sort of lucky compared to the average person here, realizing what you did.
i guess there are two ways to look at things:
1 it is the individual's responsibility to be discerning and not get trapped into a single mode of thought/ follow a forum a guru
2 forum owners have a responsibility to not entrap people into their webs, especially if their protocols are not working.
i think power flows from the top down, and i wonder sometimes who grants these forum owner privileges. some of these forum owners spell at a 4th grade level. some are so overtly combative and obviously imbalanced at a psychological level that it is almost comical - only it isn't because there are real people in dire need depending on them.
re option 1: how many people in the throes of a gall bladder attack or stage 3 cancer have the presence of mind to be discerning? A: not too many.
that leaves option two, and it seems like there is a whole lot of room for improvement there.
someone posted here a while back that forum owners should be required to reveal their real names and information. i think this would go a long way toward at least keeping things civil and probably hold some of these gurus to a higher standard.
alternative medicine is not where it was 20 years ago. it is not really on the fringes anymore, no matter how pharma and guv try to paint it as such. it really is smack in the mainstream, and curezone as one of the major alternative medicine sites should roll with the times. let's hold some of these forum owners to a higher level of accountability.
the real shame is that the people who fall in between the cracks on curezone and wind up having organs removed, whole bowel resections, massive chemo, etc etc do so not because the proper information isn't here, it happens simply because a certain forum owner or owners overstepped their
boundaries and put their own egos above the health of the individual.
Meat is was and will remain in the first world diet.There is no thing to really debate about the number one food stuff of man.History does speak for itself.
There is an issue as far as carbs and there effect with animal foods.Paleo or Primal/with dairy is low carb and irritant removal focused.
This is tested by application as far as how one feels and performs.This works well in sports fitness as well as health challenged.
Veganism is steeped in emotional weakness and denial of human tradition.Meet your farmer that raises the pastured and free range foods and all will be well.My farmer is 33 miles away and the eggs are glorious.
135...thank you for such an eloquent response. I could not agree more. Each of us needs to find what works for us, without the demolition of other opinions. I believe in the Paleo lifestyle. what I know is that until I chose to eat this way, I could not lose weight. when I tried an Atkins approach, I lost 50 pounds in 3 months... and I was 50. I had the body of an overweight 50 year old, and all of a sudden I had the body of a 30 year old... or so the friends of my son told me ;). When I look at Dr. Fuhrman, he does not look healthy like Mark Sisson does... but that is just my opinion.
I also agree about the moderators of forums that cannot see when their guidance is not working for people who are looking to get well. I have read one sad story here about one young man seeking healing, and after 2 YEARS he is still not well, but when he asks or gets frustrated with his lack of ability to get well while following all this person's guidance, he is chastised.... or his questions and comments go unanswered like he is his own problem.
It IS up to each of us to find what WE need, and with so much animosity spewing out of those who disagree... well... it is time to realize that not all walk the same road to healing.