I use both- combine the Coke flush that uses the phos drops in apple cider/juice for 3 days prior to flushing, plus I still also use the 2 doses of Epsom Salts prior to flushing and after flushing. Many people use just the phos drops/apple cider for 3 days without using the Epsom Salts , and have said it will dilate the bile ducts, but I feel better knowing I've had the epsom salts to dilate them for sure- I've gotten large stones. The phos acid, along with the malic acid in the apple cider helps to soften stones too.
I've been aiming at this, I'm just not organized enough to do it yet. my first flush was scary because I had such big stones. It also hurts, and if I had my act together I'd also do a castor oil pack, but it really sounds messy. I have a heating pad, I might try that at least next time, and if I can figoure out how to do a castor oil pack without ruining the bedding, I'll try it also
Oh well,.... Maybe now I've done a few, it'll get easier.
Phosphoric acid is used (like malic acid) to soften the stones. There is all kinds of evidence it does this (but no kinds of evidence it does it any better than malic acid)...at least that I've been able to find (in over 3 years)
I have spent at LEAST 30 hours researching phosphoric acid on the 'net and I can find NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE that it dilates anything.
It most certainly IS an oft repeated rumor (that phosphoric acid dilates), but I have yet to find anyone that has any evidence, logical scientific, or 'otherwise' to prove or indicate that rumor is true.
On the other hand, Epsom Salts (and other forms of magnesium) DO dilate and relax - and that's been known for decades.
Please don't fall prey to people (and their writings) who are 'stuck on a protocol' or are simply repeating something that they have heard (or *think* they have experienced). Demand answers & proof! (Each and every Liver Flush is unique
That being said, if ANYBODY has any evidence that phosphoric acid does anything other than soften liver stones , please post it. I'm always willing (and grateful) to learn.
P.S. My mom-in-law was cured of liver cancer in Dr. Kelley's underground clinics in the late 1970's. He used phosphoric acid in his flush protocol (which he got from the archived info of the acclaimed Lahey Clinic in Boston back in the 1920's - 1930's). Dr. Kelley wrote/explained/documented that the phosphoric acid softened the stones but the Epsom Salts were what was responsible for dilating the biliary ducts/network. Having cured thousands of people of terminal cancer (using both liver flushing AND coffee enemas). There's no doubt in my mind that if Dr. Kelley had an thought that phosphoric acid dilated anything, he would have documented it clearly.
This post was very informative. I raised the question because I suffer for impaired sulfur oxidation from heavy metals and when I use ES, body odor increases. I tried foregoing the EP, but was told that that could impact my gallbladder.
My bottle says Ortho-phosphoric acid, but its just the longer proper name for what you are talking about.
Askshelley recommended it for dissolving stones so I have taken it pretty regularly for about 6 months at least. I would take it for a few weeks on, then break for a week. I found that it was more effective that way.
I found that it had an effect on my liver that could be felt. My liver made more sounds, my bile (and hunger) increased, etc.. I feel like it is a good liver cleanse. It softens the stones like a soap. I didn't have the same reaction with Malic acid. With malic acid it did seems to have more of a relaxing effect on the bile ducts. I was even taking malic acid regularly but it didn't seem to have the long term cleansing effect.
I don't do many actual liver flushes. I only do them once the gradual cleansing protocols have got to the point when a stone starts pressing against my ducts because it has finally come loose from all the herbs.
That happened to me one time when I had my biggest breakthrough. Per Shelley's advice I was taking Stone Free and Malic acid for about 2 weeks. It finally had the effect of reinvigorating my liver and bile production. I started getting hungry again (a good sign).
A few months later after I switched from malic acid to phosphoric acid I started getting this throbbing burning feeling in my liver area. I stopped taking my supplments but it didn't go away. I realized I had a stuck stone. I did a Liver Flush next day. Actually I think I passed the stone after taking my second dose of Epsom Salts . I had a huge BM and it looked like there were lots of stones/sludge in there. I took the oil/lemon mix anyhow but it didn't do anything. I generally don't get a good flush from the oil because I don't have much bile to begin with.
That's what people have to realize. Some of us have such little bile production that the flush isn't needed or isn't effective. Its like a very clogged drain. You can fill the tub with water but it won't do anything. you have to put the right chemicals in there to slowly dissolve the blockage before the flow can do anything.
How can you flush stones with bile if you aren't hardly producing any bile? It didn't work for me very much and I think that's true for lots of people. They need to build up their bile producing ability first.
I wonder how many people on here don't even get properly hungry. I know that I never got hungry. that's a sure sign that you are weak in digestive "fire" including bile.
Anyhow, stone free helped me initially but its pretty strong so I'm laying off the heavy herbs. I still take phosphoric acid.
I recently discovered that waking up before the sun comes up helps digestion immensly throughout the day. I'm doing that and also eating only what I must have. I'm slowly building a stronger digestive system that way.
Actually, I used to sleep late, eat late, eat too much, too much sugar, etc.. I think that I need to fix this by reversing: don't eat late, don't eat too much, no sugar, wake up early. Additional supplements of course are good to provide support.
No doubt, phosphoric acid (in the form of 'ortho phos', will indeed soften stones.
We each come to our own conclusions, based on our experiences...and what we *think* may be happening. I'm glad you've had good things happen with the ortho-phos.
Dr. Schulze , Dr. Kelley, Dr. Clark (and other successful healers of this century) cured tens of thousands of people of incurable diseases with liver flushing as a foundational part of their protocols. They didn't wait until everything was loosened up before they started flushing, the flush is what loosens everything up so the bile can flow freely (hence enabling other liver functions).
There is no evidence that phosphoric acid dilates or relaxes ANY part of the body...that's why I posted.
There is AMPLE evidence that phosphoric acid is very harmful...especially if taken on a regular basis. For those interested in learning why ingesting a substance that has been proven to dissolve calcium & weaken bones (that is used in dentistry to 'etch' dental enamel), here's a past post I compiled:
To each his own...but there's no way I'd use a harsh chemical acid to cure, heal or fix something that can easily be done more safely with truly safe, natural means.
*EDIT* It is very typical for a harsh chemical acid to show faster results than the natural malic acid found in nature. Faster results do not necessarily mean healthier results. Many of us are dealing with issues that developed over decades. While it may be faster to utilize "alternative products" that are not natural to the human body (or can cause harm), it may not be in our best interests in the long run.
If I want to leave out the phos and just supplement with malic acid, what dose are people doing? Also, if whatever stones I have are not calcified or big enough to show up on an ultrasound (tons of liver flukes), then maybe I don't need to continue with stone breakers or softeners???